Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Newly Published Book "The Sound of Stradivari"


pt3
 Share

Recommended Posts

Patrick Kreit, a French violin maker, has published a book, titled "The Sound of Stradivari". It is said that the resonant frequencies and frequency spacings of an assembled violin can be tuned to desired values by using his method step by step so as to raise its tone quality to its maximum potentiality. The price of this book is 285 euro. Has anyone read this book? I want to know whether it is worth reading and buying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patrick Kreit, a French violin maker, has published a book, titled "The Sound of Stradivari". It is said that the resonant frequencies and frequency spacings of an assembled violin can be tuned to desired values by using his method step by step so as to raise its tone quality to its maximum potentiality. The price of this book is 285 euro. Has anyone read this book? I want to know whether it is worth reading and buying.

Interesting.

Yet another plate tuning scheme.

The question I'd want answered is, has anyone played one of his instruments?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

......

The question I'd want answered is, has anyone played one of his instruments?

This is a good question.

Who does not want to play Strad sounding violin?

A short look what he is doing, seems a good start, the weight match between top and back.

But, just a start..not sure what is next.

http://www.kreitpatrick.com/index_fichiers/Page458.htm

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't had time to form an opinion.

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Fair enough.

From the website -

Quote;

"Is the secret of Stradivari violins a myth or a reality? In fact, it is simply a matter of understanding traditional techniques developed by highly skilled craftsmen based on the laws of acoustics specific to the solo violin, that were then abandoned in favor of rational methods ascribable to the cultural evolution of society.

Rediscovering the Italian masters’ tuning technique has required the compilation of a database on the construction of 90 violins. Theoretical research on these data and comparison of the results have led to a rational explanation and empirical verification of the method, as well as a rationale for the difference between the arching of old and modern violins."

End quote.

On the other hand - when haven't I heard this speech, in one for or another - live or from a book, from Hutchins to Vigdorchik to insert name here?

Unfortunately, fair or not, I think my opinion can pretty well be formed without having to read through a slightly different version of the same old thing, yet again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

according to a french forum P. Kreit is not making instruments anymore, but rather is investigating sound issues in violins/violas/cellos. He let his shop to someone called F. Pommet. The opinions of the people of this forum on P. Kreit instruments are quite positive except for one other luthier who obviously had to deal with a client who bought a cello from Kreit that was not up to the standard. But such is life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fair enough.

... .

On the other hand - when haven't I heard this speech, in one for or another - live or from a book, from Hutchins to Vigdorchik to insert name here?

Unfortunately, fair or not, I think my opinion can pretty well be formed without having to read through a slightly different version of the same old thing, yet again.

Right, Craig. But why have we stopped listening? B)

I feel that this subject has gone over from science to hyped up superstition. (Think of astronomy vs astrology.) I'm trying still to find the dividing line.

Just yesterday I ran my plate tuning table on a violin top that had a new unshaped bass bar. As I trimmed the bar to classical shapes the ring mode 5 came into a beautiful pattern and the tone strength improved. It was obvious from this why we taper the bass bar ends. Now, this does not vindicate all of the plate tuning theories. So no one should jump conclusions. I think yesterday's experience was still in the realm of science, not superstition.

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, Craig. But why have we stopped listening? B)

I feel that this subject has gone over from science to hyped up superstition. (Think of astronomy vs astrology.) I'm trying still to find the dividing line.

Stay Tuned.

Mike

Yes, I've stopped listening - and here's why.

I am comfortable with where I have placed the "dividing line" for myself.

I respect all of my violin making friends, the ones who tune, the ones who bend plates, and those who do whatever they feel is right, it is exactly the same respect I reserve for any accomplished violin maker, including those who don't tune - they all seeem to accomplish the exact same thing, in the end - good modern violins.

I just happen to utilize a different method in order to arrive at the same result. Perhaps I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder, because I don't claim - outright or by implication, that my particular method is superior, or is what Strad did...

In my opinion, thus far, neither camp has "uncovered" anything that puts them ahead of the pack.

I feel comfortable letting them prove themselves by their instruments, as my method of checking them out, rather than by spending more money and time investing myself in studying their theories.

I'd rather be in the shop building. (or perhaps taking a nap or out hiking...)

(I have done it enough times [that is, take a side road into someones "pet theory" promising ne plus ultra results] that I expect nothing but the same old (arbitrary) results... where the quality of the tone of the violin is determined solely by the innate ability of the maker - and not by some formularic method)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is he actually claiming to have found the secret sound system of Stradivari? Or is it just the title of the book.

I just read the linked sample "pages" intros ....Sounds to me like he's claiming it,but as Roberdo just poined out It wan't a secret ... just prop. info.lol ... there are some pretty strong statements. That said I've always liked the idea of plate tuning ,not as a panacea but as perhaps as smell is to cooking... note to self.. always smell the chicken before cooking the chicken! LOL .I've read ..or tried to read Vigdorchek.....as close to total nonsence to me as one can get and still be in the kitchen (he will tune individual grain lines in a ....) I'd love to read the new book, and I'm sure that for the $200 whatever dollar it's selling for the guy's not gonna get rich ...

I can't afford it .

What would be nice is if a wealthy patron like (insert your name here) could purchace these manny and expensive books and create a qualified lending program ,,, I could pay a deposit and perhaps a usserfee and be able to see, feel, read, the Strad Varvish book or the (fill in the blank) talk about progressing the new Golden Age of Violins! Next best thing to Maestronet!

catch'ya on the flip side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a pity that most Del Gesù violins - the first choice of many soloists - have been regraduated and lost their original frequencies and top tones, rendering these instruments useless today.

I am willing to buy some of these useless regraduated Del Gesùs for 5K dollars each.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is a pity that most Del Gesù violins - the first choice of many soloists - have been regraduated and lost their original frequencies and top tones, rendering these instruments useless today.

I am willing to buy some of these useless regraduated Del Gesùs for 5K dollars each.

I have one that I made myself, so I leave it to you at half price... :) :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quoted from The Sound of Stradivari:

· The coupling frequency of the top plate determines the frequency of mode B1- and the dynamics of the violin.

· The coupling frequency of the back plate determines the frequency of mode B1+ and the power of the instrument.

There are all kinds of fancy ways to manipulate 'numbers' and data. It's Voodoo I tell ya! Coupling plate frequencies DO NOT determine resonant mode frequencies.

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Has anyone read this book?

Apparently, Stradivarius hasn't... in Curtin's article, 3 out of 4 of the listed top taptones of Strads didn't meet the requirements listed in the book. So they can't sound like Strads. And I'm sure you can build an instrument that meets the requirements and still sounds like crap... I'm sure I could, if I wanted to.

I haven't read the book, but from the excerpts I have some strong opinions: mostly hyped basic stuff that I don't think really defines or causes the "Strad Sound". The only thing that might be of interest to me is the Lucchi meter data on the wood properties... maybe... but definitely not worth the price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Patrick Kreit, a French violin maker, has published a book, titled "The Sound of Stradivari". It is said that the resonant frequencies and frequency spacings of an assembled violin can be tuned to desired values by using his method step by step so as to raise its tone quality to its maximum potentiality. The price of this book is 285 euro. Has anyone read this book? I want to know whether it is worth reading and buying.

I teach you how-to for half the money ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unequivocal statements like this tend to have the unintended effect of undermining the ideas presented...

"To avoid this major problem, one solution exists: inducing creep, a technique used by the Italian violin makers. The free top and back plates or the sounding box in the white must be exposed to the sun or ultraviolet light (in a closed cabinet), or near a source of heat, in order to learn how high their frequencies may rise so as to lower them to an appropriate value, if necessary.

Dehydration below 6% moisture content shrinks the wood, allowing the plates’ frequencies to stabilize by reducing their capacity to reabsorb moisture up to the 12% level.

This technique may confirm the terms of a well-known letter sent to Galileo from Cremona in 1638: “the violin cannot be brought to perfection without the strong heat of the sun.”

This is why Stradivari made pre-finished top and back plates in advance to expose them to the sun for an extended period of time. He did likewise with violins in the white."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unequivocal statements like this tend to have the unintended effect of undermining the ideas presented...

This is why Stradivari made pre-finished top and back plates in advance to expose them to the sun for an extended period of time. He did likewise with violins in the white."

[/i]

I agree, while if one is engaged in plate tunning it make total sence to monitor moisture conditions at approprate levels and perhaps he has developed a fine technique with good results. Still there is no evidence that Strad & Co. did it this way. prefinnished tops and Backs? I don't think Strad could have observed the ...any changes .other than tanning to make this a valuble practice. IMHO. IF he realy wanted to establish a credable report I should think sound files of Strad.DGU and his work might be in order. .P.S. He does list MN on his links page.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unequivocal statements like this tend to have the unintended effect of undermining the ideas presented...

Dehydration below 6% moisture content shrinks the wood, allowing the plates’ frequencies to stabilize by reducing their capacity to reabsorb moisture up to the 12% level.

I agree. The wood will shrink and swell at any MC content change below the fiber saturation point (some 28-30% MC) and the effect remains also after the wood has been dried up below 6%.

There are some incorrect statements like this in the excerpt from the book. It is, however, the first violin making book i know of addressing the effect the MC has on the wood and violin properties. He also addresses a subject I find interesting with data and mode shapes from plates on the ribs. However the price of the book seems a bit preventive. It is too expencive.

It is a pity that the book relate to "Stradivaris methods" without presenting data from such instruments.

His statement that 10Hz changes in the plate free mode frequencies will make much of a difference in the assembled instrument is also a bit optimistic. The sensitivity between the free plates and the assembeled instrument is pretty small, for frequency changes it is about 30-40% of the free plates. So 10% change in the free plate modes will give 3-4Hz change in the assembled instrument. Hardly detectable for a player.

I do not think we will see much valuable news from free plate versus assembled violins before we get reliable data on the amplitudes of free plates versus assembled violins and correlations between these.

Getting the signature modes in the right ballpark is pretty simple, possibly helped by the weak sensitivity between free plate modes and assembled instrument modes.

[The first sentence of the post is edited]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the other hand - when haven't I heard this speech, in one for or another - live or from a book, from Hutchins to Vigdorchik to insert name here?

Yes, but at least Vigdorchik is a lot cheaper. If the new book was being sold for $50 I would probably buy it (not right away but eventually) and read it when I got bored enough. For $300, or whatever the price translates to, I can't even concider it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...