Frederick Dale Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Since blood,substituting violins,and dealer chicanery have been mentioned in this thread, I must ask, has anybody here watched the movie "The Red Violin?" as it dealt with all of this nonsense. Very good movie, by the way. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Since blood,substituting violins,and dealer chicanery have been mentioned in this thread, I must ask, has anybody here watched the movie "The Red Violin?" as it dealt with all of this nonsense. Very good movie, by the way. Fred Yes, I went to the Austrian premiere. I thought it was misogynist and dead boring. When I staggered out into the viennese sunshine afterwards, I discovered that the audience was mostly colleagues of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 Yes, I went to the Austrian premiere. I thought it was misogynist and dead boring. When I staggered out into the viennese sunshine afterwards, I discovered that the audience was mostly colleagues of mine. I also went with some colleagues, although we had planned to go together. Our conclusion was much like Jacob's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 were you guys thinking they were going to reveal the secret of stradivari in the movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 were you guys thinking they were going to reveal the secret of stradivari in the movie? Tony Strad didn't have any secrets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 were you guys thinking they were going to reveal the secret of stradivari in the movie? I went into the movie expecting to learn the secrets of Stradivari and all I can recall now of the movie is the the ludicrous peep show between "Frederick Pope (Jason Flemyng)" and "Victoria Byrd (Greta Scaachi)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 were you guys thinking they were going to reveal the secret of stradivari in the movie? Naw, we were just looking for a social and humorous night out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anders Buen Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 I wonder who of you guys were the role model for having sex while playing the violin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndon Posted April 23, 2011 Report Share Posted April 23, 2011 that would be david, heaven help us if its with a sheep!!!! or maybe it was inspired by machold's sex life who knows(added this so were not going off topic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zefir68 Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 This is a great article regarding the visual art world that has many parallels to this discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/arts/design/wildenstein-art-gallery-is-beset-by-lawsuits.html?scp=1&sq=wildenstein&st=cse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scordatura Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Many parallels to Machold, Segelman, et al in the above artice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 This is a great article regarding the visual art world that has many parallels to this discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/arts/design/wildenstein-art-gallery-is-beset-by-lawsuits.html?scp=1&sq=wildenstein&st=cse Or possibly the opposite?: Widdenstein "can't" tell the police where the goodies in his safe came from: Machold "won't" tell the police where the goodies that should be in his safe are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 This is a great article regarding the visual art world that has many parallels to this discussion: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/arts/design/wildenstein-art-gallery-is-beset-by-lawsuits.html?scp=1&sq=wildenstein&st=cse In that article, what I found more interesting than the shenanigans was the back story behind the 'Bride of Wildenstein.' I have to admit after looking her up via Google images I'm having some difficulty figuring out whether her plastic surgeon is a disciple of Picasso or Dali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 A new Machold story in tomorows "Der Standard" newspaper (Vienna). Here is the story in (complicated) German. I will try to get around to writing a translation tomorrow. derstandard.at/1308679903544/Stradivaris-Wie-Banken-sich-mit-Geigen-verfuehren-liessen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Sorry, I am obviously too stupid to post a link. Just go to "derStandard.at" and put "Stradivari" in the search box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Goldsmith Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 No problem, easily done. I am not sure why Machold is being prosecuted and no one else is......this kind of Ponzi scheme is endemic in modern State Capitalism. Our Pensions are generally Ponzi schemes and our properties too from an unspoken collusion of politicians and banks wanting us to feel we are richer by the day whilst taking all we earn..Machold is not an exception he is an illustration of what the much bigger guys like the banks have done to us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 No problem, easily done. I am not sure why Machold is being prosecuted and no one else is......this kind of Ponzi scheme is endemic in modern State Capitalism. Our Pensions are generally Ponzi schemes and our properties too from an unspoken collusion of politicians and banks wanting us to feel we are richer by the day whilst taking all we earn..Machold is not an exception he is an illustration of what the much bigger guys like the banks have done to us all. I think I have understood why he is being prosecuted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Jacob, Here's the link to that der Standard article: Machold, his Stradivaris, and the bank. der Standard article Your link was close. It lacks "http://" at the beginning: http://derstandard.at/1308679903544/Stradivaris-Wie-Banken-sich-mit-Geigen-verfuehren-liessen Why is he identified as "Dietmar M." in the article? Would printing his last name violate an Austrian law? This may be a question you aren't permitted to answer, Jacob, but here goes anyway: Did any of the banks call you in to evaluate any of Machold's instruments? One of the points the article makes is that Machold, himself, set the values of the instruments he was using as collateral. Surely the banks would have called in somebody else to confirm Machold's valuations, if not before the loans were made, then when Machold showed himself incapable of meeting his obligations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 No problem, easily done. I am not sure why Machold is being prosecuted and no one else is......this kind of Ponzi scheme is endemic in modern State Capitalism. Our Pensions are generally Ponzi schemes and our properties too from an unspoken collusion of politicians and banks wanting us to feel we are richer by the day whilst taking all we earn..Machold is not an exception he is an illustration of what the much bigger guys like the banks have done to us all. Exactly right. I thought, or was hoping, that institutionalized theft by financial institutions was confined to America, but apparently it's not. So you Britons have it, too. In the case of Machold, however, there's a twist. This time it's a private citizen, a very wealthy one, allegedly taking advantage of the banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Jacob, Here's the link to that der Standard article: Machold, his Stradivaris, and the bank. der Standard article Your link was close. It lacks "http://" at the beginning: http://derstandard.at/1308679903544/Stradivaris-Wie-Banken-sich-mit-Geigen-verfuehren-liessen Why is he identified as "Dietmar M." in the article? Would printing his last name violate an Austrian law? This may be a question you aren't permitted to answer, Jacob, but here goes anyway: Did any of the banks call you in to evaluate any of Machold's instruments? One of the points the article makes is that Machold, himself, set the values of the instruments he was using as collateral. Surely the banks would have called in somebody else to confirm Machold's valuations, if not before the loans were made, then when Machold showed himself incapable of meeting his obligations. I certainly wasn't approached to evaluate anything, except the one 'cello mentioned much further back in this thread. To express any opinion whatsoever, without having been expressly asked, would have inevitably had the "who the hell are you" effect described by Roger pages back. "Dietmar M." is a quaint, if hypocritical, tradition too avoid being sued for libel, as is the "innocent until proven guilty" phrase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skiingfiddler Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 "Dietmar M." is a quaint, if hypocritical, tradition too avoid being sued for libel, .... That is quaint. The article describes "Dietmar M." as "one of the world's best known violin dealers" (including dealing in Stradivari violins), 61 years old, with a castle in Lower Austria, has an extensive camera collection, and is currently in custody in Switzerland, awaiting extradition to Austria to face fraud charges, among other transgressions. It's good to see that M's identity is being protected. Nobody's going to figure out who that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Nobody's going to figure out who that is. peek a boo....I see you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 That is quaint. The article describes "Dietmar M." as "one of the world's best known violin dealers" (including dealing in Stradivari violins), 61 years old, with a castle in Lower Austria, has an extensive camera collection, and is currently in custody in Switzerland, awaiting extradition to Austria to face fraud charges, among other transgressions. It's good to see that M's identity is being protected. Nobody's going to figure out who that is. 3 guesses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 This took me longer to translate than I thought, because I was preoccupied with a court case of my own today, concerning my 16year old autistic boy Leopold, which got more complicated than anyone would believe: How Banks let themselves be seduced by Violins Chapter Stradivari: Bank Austria (the Austrian division of Uni-Credit) sues – Borrower was allowed to value violins himself. His Castle in Lower Austria flogged, the violins disappeared, 16 cubic meters of boxes and crates of stored cameras and camera parts awaiting appraisal – he himself still stuck in Swiss custody, awaiting extradition. We are talking about Dietmar M., previously one of the most important violin dealers in the world, against whom the Viennese public prosecutor is investigating charges of breach of trust, commercial fraud and several other transgressions. Creditors from around the world have made claims of over 100 Million Euros in his Bankruptcy proceedings, 80 Million of which have been recognised. Alone the Austrian Banks account for almost 30 Million Euros. As reported, the presently 61 year old, specialised in dealing with the most valuable Stradivari’s, mostly on the tick. One of his customers were the Austrian National Bank (OeNB), who own a Stradivari collection and who have been involved in litigation with M. for years. M., whose attorney reports is fighting extradition proceedings and for whom the principal of innocent until proven guilty applies, had also built up massive debts with Bank Austria (Uni-Credit). They sued in February and joined the proceedings as a private plaintiff. According to the statement of claim, Bank Austria financed the purchase of three valuable Stradivari violins. M., who according to the claim, passed himself of as world expert, valued the “Leonado da Vinci” made in 1725 at 3,2 Million Dollars, a second made in 1717 at 2 Million Euros and the “ex Derenberg” from 1688 at 2,23 million Dollars. Customer appraises himself. The bank evidently trusted the valuation expertise of its customer and provided finance, in the period between 2001 and 2004 of exactly 4,038 Million Euros. They bought the title to the instruments, but immediately entrusted M: with there safekeeping since he, so he claimed, had suitable storage facilities. In April 2008 the credit was due, was however never paid. In the autumn of 2010 bankruptcy proceedings were opened and the court administrator recognised debts of 5,021 million Euros versus Bank Austria (Uni-Credit). The Bank Austria (Uni-Credit) were unable to sell the violins in their possession to cover this shortfall, since M. steadfastly ignored there request, that he state at which concrete geographical place these violins were to be found. What now makes the story even more complicated is that the bank has the suspicion that M. has sold the violins, which did not even belong to him but the bank, in breach of trust. On top of that, it seems that the valuations were unrealistic. In the annual accounts of his Berlin Public Ltd. Company, the capital is recorded as consisting of 7 stringed instruments (5 from Stradivari) with a compiled value of a fairy tale 80 Million Euros. The “values” of the instruments being confirmed by M. himself, in his role as expert. His Berlin Ltd. Company was later sold to someone in Milan, apparently without any funds changing hands. It is apparent from the documents filed in this court case that the Austrian National Bank also had violins valued, although that went in circles too. According to the Bank Austria (Uni-Credit) attorney these instruments were valued above par to trick other banks to grant higher credit sums. Renate Graber, DER STANDARD, Printed newspaper edition, Vienna 29.6.2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen maloney Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 From Madoff to Machold...geez. When will they ever learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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