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jezzupe

sugar seal

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Sorry to resurrect this old topic, but after some 4 years it seems appropriate to ask, anyone used it in in a violin with success? If yes, how does it looks today?

Looks like this....

 

Lars Silen was the last person I recall saying used it and liked it, maybe you can pm him and ask

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You have to be very careful playing a sugar sealed instrument like this outside. Once the bees get a sniff of the sugar, you'll end up engulfed in a swarm. :lol:

I use it to attract mamas, I've yet to work a Porsche out of the deal, but there's always tomorrow :D

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I'll be sealing my violin soon. I want to experiment a little more with sealing the spruce while avoiding splotching. My thought is to pre-seal the softwood with a clear sugar solution first and allowing it to dry thoroughly, followed by the cooked sugar application.

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I feel water popping the grain then tanning helps reduce blotch. The water pop raises the grain thus evening absorption, the tanning "bakes an even gold cast and makes for more even starting palette. I'd go with a slightly more thinned batches if you plan on doing more than one coat.

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15686914904_2f572e1ffc_m.jpg  15686915484_9fa75624f6_m.jpg

This was done with burnt sugar water on otherwise raw wood (photo left) and after being wiped of all residue with alcohol.  After this photo it was sealed with diluted lacquer, then finished with Italian Brown balsam varnish.  the brown sugar cooked down till all moisture is baked out, making a blackish rock crystal, then reconstituted with a little water.

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I'm preparing a cello to try this sugar color. It's almost ready for varnish. A good day of work and I;ll have the top glued on and can begin. I'll let you know how it goes. 

 

Meanwhile can any of the smart science folks tell this terminally degreed liberal arts major what is happening with the sugar to turn it a color?

 

Dumb it down for the poets in the crowd.  :lol:  :lol:

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I have made a "sugar violin". The sound is really good (not necessarily because of the sugar ground :) ) and I like the colour. The instrument is still too new to say anything about how it will stand abrasion and use in the future.

 

imgp1528.jpg?w=450&h=298

 

imgp1531.jpg?w=450&h=298

 

An article, in Swedish :) , about the sugar violin is found here:
https://larsil2009.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/socker-som-bas-for-fiollack-del-2/

 

I will probably use the sugar base for my next violin too. I will do the varnishing slightly differently probably using less coloured varnish and let the sugar base provide the main colour. Please notice that the pictures were taken during set up. I don't leave the tuning pegs as shown on the picture ;) . Set up was, as usually, done in small steps trying to identify problems and ways to fix those problems. The plates were tuned from the inside at this stage iteratively together with bridge tuning.

The next stage will, hopefully, be to compare the violin to a borrowed Chanot in a big hall.

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I do not know about bees, but some wasps like to use the violins as the good place to build the nest. I had one nice old nest in one violin, one year ago. Not very easy to remove without removing the top. Though, I do not think that it has anything with the sugar or honey.

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The sugar ground looks very good.

As far as attracting bees, I had the problem when I made varnish. Hot linseed oil seemed to draw in the bees. Here in NJ honey bees are rare, but there are other kinds that still visit flowers.

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I have made a "sugar violin". The sound is really good (not necessarily because of the sugar ground :) ) and I like the colour. The instrument is still too new to say anything about how it will stand abrasion and use in the future.

 

imgp1528.jpg?w=450&h=298

 

imgp1531.jpg?w=450&h=298

 

An article, in Swedish :) , about the sugar violin is found here:

https://larsil2009.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/socker-som-bas-for-fiollack-del-2/

 

I will probably use the sugar base for my next violin too. I will do the varnishing slightly differently probably using less coloured varnish and let the sugar base provide the main colour. Please notice that the pictures were taken during set up. I don't leave the tuning pegs as shown on the picture ;) . Set up was, as usually, done in small steps trying to identify problems and ways to fix those problems. The plates were tuned from the inside at this stage iteratively together with bridge tuning.

The next stage will, hopefully, be to compare the violin to a borrowed Chanot in a big hall.

 

Lars,

 

Violinen ser fin ut. Hoppas vi får chans att ses vid något tillfälle så att jag kan berätta hur det fungerar. Det som du berättar på din blogg är inte helt rätt.

 

Jag har lärt LK (inget namn dump här men jag tror du vet vem jag menar) hur man gör, han färdigställer två fioler just nu med rätt stämda plattor och A0 B1-/+ frekvenser. 

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Lars,

 

Violinen ser fin ut. Hoppas vi får chans att ses vid något tillfälle så att jag kan berätta hur det fungerar. Det som du berättar på din blogg är inte helt rätt.

 

Jag har lärt LK (inget namn dump här men jag tror du vet vem jag menar) hur man gör, han färdigställer två fioler just nu med rätt stämda plattor och A0 B1-/+ frekvenser. 

 

Eruwhrf poewjfpojewpo esd ewioihcbnbnkasjldhgkl ds !!!

 

( and I meant every word )

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The sugar ground looks very good.

As far as attracting bees, I had the problem when I made varnish. Hot linseed oil seemed to draw in the bees. Here in NJ honey bees are rare, but there are other kinds that still visit flowers.

 

My comment about the swarm of bees was just my warped sense of humor translating poorly into written text. Once the seal is dry and covered with varnish, I don't believe bees would be attracted to it more than any other varnish system.

 

Mike, it's interesting your comment about the lack of honeybees in New Jersey. I thought bees were kept just about anywhere and everywhere south of the 60th parallel. Here's an interesting blog about bee keeping: http://www.badbeekeeping.com/beeblog2013.htm

 

 

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Peter,

Yes it would be interesting :) . For some reason people get upset when not knowing what is said. Yes it is true that some details may be incorrect :) that is how work in progress is :) .

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You have to do a lot to sugar to get it to change the appearance of the noticeably. I bet Lars' violin would have looked nice with just about anything for the ground.

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Peter,

Yes it would be interesting :) . For some reason people get upset when not knowing what is said. 

 

It's not about "not knowing". In my case it's a bonus, I don't want to know. :)

But it's impolite, to put it mildly. 

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More droll than troll, I'd say. You speak the truth. For some reason people get upset when someone says what everyone else is thinking.

Mies on peikko.

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I don't understand what is arguable.

 

1) If it looks good

2) seals the wood effectively

3) provides a good, stable primer base for subsequent varnish coats

 

It may not be Historically and Cremonally correct, but doesn't it fulfill the requirements of what a good seal should be? What is it lacking?

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I heard that Sacconi's instruments are not holding up well varnish-wise. Not that some beautiful wear pattern is developing. Obviously, myself, I have no idea. I can't make any real argument against the practice, just what I heard. I have been messing around with some wood treatments but not the one you all do.

I was more commenting on the Swedish clique of two. I am easily perturbed. Oh, look, here's a fascinating article full of great information. It's in Swedish: that's ok, right? Gee, thanks. And then conversing in Swedish. It's smug. If you think you've discovered the secrets of the new Golden Age of violin making, by all means don't hold back.

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What did Sacconi use in the violins that are not holding well?

 

From what I understand he did not use the same in all violins....or am I mistaken?

 

How good was Sacconi as a varnisher? (I know there are conflicting opinions here)

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