bow hair quality

[zefir68]

My father got me started in doing amateur bow rehairing and gave me a shank that is now running out. What should one look for in getting good hair for rehairing full size violin bows? I have done some of my own bows and feel I should order good to excellent quality bow in order to continue getting better. I see all kinds of quantities (200-500 grams) to A-AAA quality hair, 31-35" long from various suppliers from China on eBay and other descriptions from Bowworks that confound me. Also, mare and male hair. All ranging in price that is hard to make comparisons. Also, how long does the hair retain its qualities? I have had a shank for some two+ years now and I notice a slight decline in its quality, it's drier and does not last as long. I have been doing some rehairs for some students, for practice. Any advice would be welcome.

[Josh Henry]

Hi Zefir68,

The first thing that I would say is that a 'shank' is a leg of lamb, the sole of a boot, part of a screw, or a make-shift knife . Bow hair is supplied in bundles of differing weight sometimes called a 'hank', but that term is usually in reference to the amount of hair for a single bow.

What you will want to look for is hair that is at least 32" long (I prefer 33-34"). You mention that you've had your bundle for over two years, so I would recommend that you purchase a smaller amount if you can (100 to 250 grams) so that the hair doesn't get brittle before you use it up. As long as the hair is well-kept--out of direct sunlight and protected from dust, oil, moisture, and bugs then you should be fine keeping a 500g bundle for several years.

The quality descriptions that you mention for bowhair are completely meaningless. I don't know of a single reputable hair supplier that grades hair using guitar tonewood designations (A—AAA). I've seen these designations on hair on the various ebay sellers, and would hesitate to speculate anything about qualities that you can compare. Also you shouldn't put much stock in the designations of hair based on gender (stallion or mare), as these terms pretty much describe the color variation (color drift) in the hair (stallion = whiter hair, less color change; mare hair = more creamy in color, with darker ends). To read more about how hair is sorted, bundled, marketed, and sold you should read this article. Whatever you use, you will want to look for is consistency in the hair. You want every hair to be just like the others in shape, length, thickness, elasticity, and color.

When you average the cost per bow, even the best hair is inexpensive enough that you should just purchase the best that you can afford. One 500g bundle will get you anywhere from 60 to 80 rehairs, depending on how many cello and bass bows you do and how exacting you are when you eliminate the hairs that are not consistent. Consistency in the hair ribbon will help to eliminate grittiness and scratchiness in the feel and sound of the bow. The easiest way to kill a reputation as a rehairer is to use crappy hair. (That and have your plugs pop out in the player's hands.)

Good Luck!

[gowan]

My father got me started in doing amateur bow rehairing and gave me a shank that is now running out. What should one look for in getting good hair for rehairing full size violin bows? I have done some of my own bows and feel I should order good to excellent quality bow in order to continue getting better. I see all kinds of quantities (200-500 grams) to A-AAA quality hair, 31-35" long from various suppliers from China on eBay and other descriptions from Bowworks that confound me. Also, mare and male hair. All ranging in price that is hard to make comparisons. Also, how long does the hair retain its qualities? I have had a shank for some two+ years now and I notice a slight decline in its quality, it's drier and does not last as long. I have been doing some rehairs for some students, for practice. Any advice would be welcome.

The bow maker Lynn Hannings sells bow hair : https://www.lahbows.com/productList.aspx?_categoryID=6 From what I know of her reputation she is certainly trustworthy as to quality of hair.

[danielmiller]

Hi, I buy all my hair from Lynn Hannings. She sells hair in one pound bundles, but will split it up in quarters to the amount that you want, i.e. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4. For most bows, I use the Mongolian hair that she sells. It is quite expensive, so I usually buy it in 3/4 lb. increments. I find that this amount lasts a good while, but not so long that it hangs around for over a year. I like doing it this way so that I know my hair is always fresh. She sells many varieties of hair, but my customers have responded the best to the Mongolian. I know that she personally checks the hair from her suppliers and sends it back if she does not like it, however, no matter how good the hair is, I always have some waste and find inconsistencies within each bundle. I do not think she sells anything under 32" in length.

I echo Josh that if hair is stored properly, is should last about 3 years before losing its flexibility.

Hope this helps.

[zefir68]

All of the replies are very helpful. I ended up ordering from a chinese company that I have ordered accessories (fine tuners, tailpieces and chin rests) in the past. I got a hank of 400g, 85cm. I will post my impression of the quality once I receive it. Thank you all for the extremely useful and helpful information.

Teo

[Mat Roop]

Josh... thanks for the nice summary info...

Dare I ask where you buy your hair from?

Thaks, Mat

[Barry J. Griffiths]

I ended up ordering from a chinese company that I have ordered accessories (fine tuners, tailpieces and chin rests) in the past. I got a hank of 400g, 85cm. I will post my impression of the quality once I receive it. Thank you all for the extremely useful and helpful information.

Teo

I usually buy my hair from a U.S. supplier with generally good results. Recently I gave a Chinese supplier a try. 250gr (about 1/2 lb.) for $129 plus shipping. Perhaps a good deal. Perhaps not. The hair was AWFUL, totally unusable. The seller gave me a substantial credit back to my PayPal account and just let me keep the hair.

On a separate but related note I bought a 42 pc. set of cello closing clamps from a different Chinese supplier. The total cost of the clamps including shipping was $196.00. That comes to less than $5.00 per clamp. Are they as good as the Herdim clamps from Germany? No, but they're real close Herdim clones. A set of the Herdim clamps, at $18.95 per clamp costs $795.90 plus shipping. That's a $600.00 savings. I'll take it.

[Mat Roop]

I always follow Josh's advice... "buy the best hair you can afford"... and with the price of the best hair, the cost is really irrelevant. For example the best hair from Michael Vann costs me $332 + $25 for shipping for a 500 gram bundle which produces 80-90 violin hanks and lasts me about a year ... thats just $4.50/ hank. When I started using this hair I got lots of compliments.... one client said "Wow that bow plays by itself!"

I checked out Lynn Hannings site... and their best is $480/ pound.

The hair I use is the Supreme white Siberian stallion from Michael Vann http://www.vannbows.com/contents/en-us/d3.html.

The "Supreme" hair looks to be the same as what Lynn has.

Is there any better hair than what has been talked about... the hair equivalent of Milo Stamm bridges??

Cheers, Mat

[David Sanderson]

I live not too far away from Lynn, and have had her do some work for me, combined with pleasant visits and conversation. The last time I was down there, some months ago, she was explaining that she had started using hair from live animals, as opposed to hair taken from horses slaughtered in Chinese abbatoirs for food. This hair, she said, is considerably better, plays better, lasts longer. There are, however, distinct differences of opinion on the matter, and I raise the issue in this discussion as an addition, and to see what folks here think about it.

[Josh Henry]

I live not too far away from Lynn, and have had her do some work for me, combined with pleasant visits and conversation. The last time I was down there, some months ago, she was explaining that she had started using hair from live animals, as opposed to hair taken from horses slaughtered in Chinese abbatoirs for food. This hair, she said, is considerably better, plays better, lasts longer. There are, however, distinct differences of opinion on the matter, and I raise the issue in this discussion as an addition, and to see what folks here think about it.

Well...'round the bend we go again....time for a little copy and paste.

I will link to the same question/answer/discussion that you started on Violinist.com for folks to read the discussion there.

Here was my previous answer to you question:

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I've used horsehair from pretty much every supplier in the USA, from suppliers in Canada, and a number of suppliers straight from China. I go through more than one hair bundle (500g) of hair every month, and high quality hair is something that I look out for. There is a lot of good and bad hair out there that is sold as "bow hair." There is also a lot of marketing nonsense that is applied to the labeling of hair. I consider labeling of bow hair as stallion (male) or mare (female) to be creative marketing, and I would put the "live" hair under the same category. Personally, I think that the horsehair that is labeled and sold as "live" is a PC-marketing/enviro-ploy to be able to charge more for the hair.

I've used the "live" hair before--most recently, about 2 years ago, and found that while it was good hair, it was certainly not the best I've ever used. I had no complaints about the hair, and neither did my customer base, but I've found more consistent hair that my clientele loves from other suppliers. There are only two suppliers (that I know of) of the "live" hair in the US. I've spoken with one of them about the "live" hair. Paraphrasing his words, the hair does not necessarily come from living horses, but there is much less delay in processing and much more control over the actual source and processing of the hair. The "live" hair is intended to be a premium hair, but on the supplier's website, there is actually no claim that the hair comes from live horses.

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What I will add is that many of us do use hair that is marketed and sold as stallion/mare/live because it is good hair. I do sometimes buy and use "stallion" hair, as well as "mare" hair. It is good hair because it has had the most sorting and picking, eliminating the funky hairs. However, these labels do not guarantee that the hair is ALL stallion or mare or that it is of a certain quality. My main point in this thread and on the v.com thread about the so-called 'live' hair is not necessarily from horses that are still living, but the hair has supposedly had more care and control in the sourcing, selecting, and processing. Could some of the hair be from horses that are still living? Of course, but that is not very likely because it would not be profitable to those that process and sell the hair.

[David Sanderson]

Yes - thought I'd try the question here as well, just to see what people say, since the subject of hair came up. Whatever your beliefs about "live" hair, your point that you can't depend upon statements about the hair source is what I take as most important. Being personally acquainted with the horse in question certainly would help; but the comments about hair selection and preparation are probably equally relevant. Is there anything about violins that doesn't get impossibly complicated once you look closely at it? One suspects that we are permanently round the bend.