Michael_Molnar Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 Good stuff Mike. I like the look of what you did with Joe's varnish, reminds me of the Lady Blunt! What ( if you feel comfortable to tell) was your application method? Thanks, Melvin. It is no secret. I think I posted the method in the thread on the Violin Varnish Workshop. I used Robson's ground system which is key. After I applied about four layers of Robson's colored Greek Pitch (color mix given above), I finished it off with a slight dusting of clear shellac applied with an airbrush. The last colored layer had some boneblack to take the bright edge off. Stay Tuned. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Carlson Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 S.....!! I forgot it was on this violin! It´s not any more in my shop, but next time I´ll take a picture of this line. Salvatore Accardo had the "Reynier" violin for a number of years and we had it on display in the 1987 Stradivari Exhibition, I always forgot photograph this feature too!! One day it will be done. Uto Ughi had the "Kanarienvogel" for some time as well. Good to see them again. Thanks much for the photographs. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Salvatore Accardo had the "Reynier" violin for a number of years and we had it on display in the 1987 Stradivari Exhibition, I always forgot photograph this feature too!! One day it will be done. Uto Ughi had the "Kanarienvogel" for some time as well. Good to see them again. Thanks much for the photographs. Bruce Iv'e wanted to ask for some time/ what side did strad taper the ribs on, the back or front. in my feeble logic I can see reason for both, if the front to resist the compesive ..if the back as a viol.? does any one know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 According to Roger Hargrave, Strad did on top side, the Reynier scribe line confirm that. I my opinion, it make more sense to reduce on the back side, only until the top corner bock. I thing the answer in in Firenze with the Medicea viola, still with his original neck and top block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Cello ribs ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Might not be much to look at, but to me it means: I'm done with the bending and gluing for a while. I ran short on linings by one or two pieces, so I sliced up a couple of years' worth in the back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sobodash Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Might not be much to look at, but to me it means: I'm done with the bending and gluing for a while. I ran short on linings by one or two pieces, so I sliced up a couple of years' worth in the back there. How's the outside mold working for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 According to Roger Hargrave, Strad did on top side, the Reynier scribe line confirm that. I my opinion, it make more sense to reduce on the back side, only until the top corner bock. I thing the answer in in Firenze with the Medicea viola, still with his original neck and top block. Thanks Christian, without being pesty why the back? I think I can see more latent stress, if the back is bent to the same degree as the front.... there by resisting the string pull more? Nice ground BTW tasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 Thanks Christian, without being pesty why the back? I think I can see more latent stress, if the back is bent to the same degree as the front.... there by resisting the string pull more? Nice ground BTW tasty. If you put the back in tension here, you have an opposite force at the momentum of the neck, with the strings tension. The neck want to compress the top, you can help it with a little bit of "spring" of the bent back. For that, the tapered ribs need to be round, not flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 A pretty violin back and too many bows. It´s nice, what instrument it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 If you put the back in tension here, you have an opposite force at the momentum of the neck, with the strings tension. The neck want to compress the top, you can help it with a little bit of "spring" of the bent back. For that, the tapered ribs need to be round, not flat. OK I think im following you,,your train of thought that is ,,,now by round are you meanning the rib taper area will rock on a surface plate as opposed to hindge as in a viol? I think yes.A maker could realy vary the tension quite a bit doing it that way, I does seem to me that doing the same with the top as per Strad via hargrave, could achieve a simmilar yet lesser effect, what do you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted May 20, 2011 Report Share Posted May 20, 2011 How's the outside mold working for you? There's plus and minus to it, but overall for me it's a plus. Corner fitting is a bit tedious, but it's nice to have pre-shaped endblocks to just slap in. It would also seem to be more suited for batch building, like I'm doing now, allowing easy removal and replacement in the mold. It remains to be seen what benefits there are from holding tighter tolerances on the shape, but it can't be bad (unless you want a different shape). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 OK I think im following you,,your train of thought that is ,,,now by round are you meanning the rib taper area will rock on a surface plate as opposed to hindge as in a viol? I think yes.A maker could realy vary the tension quite a bit doing it that way, I does seem to me that doing the same with the top as per Strad via hargrave, could achieve a simmilar yet lesser effect, what do you think. No, if you taper the top side the effect is opposite. The only good explanation I hear for do it on the top side is, with baroque neck, you add angle on the string at the bridge= more pressure on the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James M. Jones Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 No, if you taper the top side the effect is opposite. The only good explanation I hear for do it on the top side is, with baroque neck, you add angle on the string at the bridge= more pressure on the top. Again, thanks for the thoughts, I think I'm following,and don't realy mean to be a bother, So the string angle for a baroque set is less than a modern set? And the relation of the nut is closer to the plane of the top on a baroque set up.That would also provides more stress as well? am I seeing this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewNewbie Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Roger Hargrave in his VSA article on neck alignment mentions also that he thought that Stradivari's neck template was 90 degrees at the foot, but found out later that it was ever so slightly canted back. This canting along with rib frame tapering on the top-side, could be the early signs of trying to aid players with moving up the neck, out of the first position, by trying to reduce the overall neck thickness. Since we don't run into warnings like; whatever you do, don't taper your ribs on the "________" (fill in the blank) -side or else the violin will sound like "_________"!!!! (fill in the blank again), I would hazard a guess and say that before players left the first position, it didn't matter what side was tapered, and that after moving up the neck, you will find the taper on the top of the rib frame more so than less. It will take a major overhaul of the neck and it's tilt to get into the higher positions later on. So this may have just been a delay tactic on early maker's part. Just a thought, with absolutely positively no evidence what-so-ever to support it. So shoot away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancescoM Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Cello ribs ground. Wow christian, that is a very nice ground color, could you tell us more about it please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christian bayon Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 This violin has Robson's Greek Pitch Varnish in a combination of 2 parts Arincione (orange), 1 part Rose, and 1 part Marone (brown) Joe, it is a question for you, I feel Greek Pitch and colophony, even cooked, and dry quite thermo-sensitive (finger print still mark after a long time). Did you find a way to avoid this feature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Catoira Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Joe, it is a question for you, I feel Greek Pitch and colophony, even cooked, and dry quite thermo-sensitive (finger print still mark after a long time). Did you find a way to avoid this feature? I am getting involved in this one. The way I cook mine it dries pretty good. I normally set them up after 2 weeks of finishing the varnish and no problem with prints from clamps or bridge, really. Joe, any takes on this one, mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 ... . Maybe I am the only person to have this problem, but I found that leaving finished garlands loose like this invites trouble. My c-bouts want to curl tighter over time as the wood relaxes and adjusts. So I place the mould back in and clamp the finished garland, squeezing the c-bout corners (Treble to Bass pairs) together. I let this sit weighed down on a flat surface while I get the plates and scroll ready. In fact, I have a couple of clamped c-bouts on my bench as I type this. By time I am ready to use the garland, it has relaxed to the mould shape perfectly. If you don't have this problem, ignore what I do. Stay Tuned. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Christian, I like your cello garland. As for curing Greek Pitch it takes a couple of days in my light box for each layer. That is the downside to this varnish system. Otherwise I love it. Stay Tuned. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Lange Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 One of my violins is now ready for a bit of suntanning... I added some wear to the edges and corners. In the first photo the violin in the back still has the unworn edgework. I also reduced the corduroy texture on the top a bit in comparison with my last violin. A while back David Burgess posted a photo to show the transparency of his nano oxides. The last photo shows the transparency of my varnish with madder lakes and bone black. Not too bad, I think. Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catnip Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Starting to varnish #7 now that the sun has finally come out! Just finished the second clear coat before I start with colored varnish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Noon Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Maybe I am the only person to have this problem, but I found that leaving finished garlands loose like this invites trouble. I have had garlands wander around in shape after taking them off the internal mold and trimming the linings, which is part of the reason I wanted to try the external mold. I want to see just how stable the unsupported garlands are, and figure that if they DO move around, I can always clamp them back solidly in the mold for a while. With the internal mold, that doesn't work so well after the blocks have been shaped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrancescoM Posted May 21, 2011 Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 One of my violins is now ready for a bit of suntanning... I added some wear to the edges and corners. In the first photo the violin in the back still has the unworn edgework. I also reduced the corduroy texture on the top a bit in comparison with my last violin. A while back David Burgess posted a photo to show the transparency of his nano oxides. The last photo shows the transparency of my varnish with madder lakes and bone black. Not too bad, I think. Matthias Very nice and clean workMatthias, the corduroy effect seems right controlled, not too heavy and also the wear on the edges is very nice too, congrats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted May 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2011 Maybe I am the only person to have this problem, but I found that leaving finished garlands loose like this invites trouble. My c-bouts want to curl tighter over time as the wood relaxes and adjusts. So I place the mould back in and clamp the finished garland, squeezing the c-bout corners (Treble to Bass pairs) together. I let this sit weighed down on a flat surface while I get the plates and scroll ready. In fact, I have a couple of clamped c-bouts on my bench as I type this. By time I am ready to use the garland, it has relaxed to the mould shape perfectly. If you don't have this problem, ignore what I do. Stay Tuned. Mike Yes - it happens to me also. The longer the ribs are off the mold, more "creeping" occurs. My solution was to make more molds (I have 3) so I can leave the ribs on them until the garland gets glued to the back and the top linings get glued on. Not much creeping (deformation) after that. I am thinking that this is normal, but it would be interesting to hear from others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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