Brad Dorsey Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 ....it's hard to imagine what the inventor must have been thinking when inventing that bar. What kind of improvement did he think that would bring to the instrument? He or she must have intended that the bar (dowel) resist the tension of the strings. String tension tends to compress the top shorter with the result that the top arching bulges up higher and the fingerboard extension falls. Two questions immediately come to mind: 1. Does it work? 2. How does it affect the instrument's sound? The odd dowel in this instrument is such an obvious way to stabilize the top that I'm surprised I've never come across something like this before. The closest I've seen is in an Isiah Arey (American) violin that I have. In this violin, a short dowel runs from each upper corner block near the back to the upper block near the top. I'll see if I can put up a picture of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 He or she must have intended that the bar (dowel) resist the tension of the strings. String tension tends to compress the top shorter with the result that the top arching bulges up higher and the fingerboard extension falls. ok now that makes sense. I never would have thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartarine Posted February 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 so here you are the invention concerns the making of strings instrument and how to improve their tone. Up to now the sharp corners of the ribs were filled with corner blocks, or there were linings all around. According to the new invention the ribs are made more "solid" stable by an inside rib which is glued to the back only, and left free towards the belly. Because you have the inside ribs you can make the outside ribs thinner, which allows the instrument to vibrate more freely. You can if you want put a floating stab, fitted in the belly on top and bottom which would reinforce the vibrations of the table, or allow the middle to swing more freely. Patentanspruch The patent itself : The instruments which are built with an inside rib going from the upper rib to the lower rib, instead of having corners blocks and where the inside ribs only touch the back of the instrument and are not fitted to the table can vibrate more freely. The floating bar or the dowel seems to be there to reinforce the vibrations of the table ( does not say any thing about the tension of the strings.] the middle bit with the letter refers as you gather to the drawing and explain what the text says and does not reveal any thing else so I skipped it so there you are thanks everybody Alistaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luthierwannabe Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 Thanks Alistaire for clearing up the mystery. Does your violin have these double ribs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartarine Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks Alistaire for clearing up the mystery. Does your violin have these double ribs? Yes luthierwannabe you can see them in the middle picture I uploaded. On "my" violin one corner of the outside ribs broke When the patent says that the inside rib should not touch the table I don't see it feasable and I find it a bit weird On "my" one anyway you can see the glue and light "leftovers" of the spruce. I am wondering if the original had a sound post. It seems to me that ,beside the fact that it will be difficult to fit because of the placing of the floating bar, it goes again the principle of letting the table vibrate freely. I'll have to try and see. Anyway thank you for your interest It was fun to find out Alistaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundboot Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Very interested to find this thread as I have a Falero violin with one of those dowels running across the top. Interestingly, mine is a cornerless (guitar shape, Chanot type). I'm wondering if the patent refers to this in any way. I'll post some pictures when I have time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drveni Posted September 28, 2011 Report Share Posted September 28, 2011 I have violin labeled Otto Windisch, Falero, drgm 384 454 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drveni Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drveni Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB3 Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 For its evident age, that inside wood is by far the newest looking spruce I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_oa Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Thank you for the pictures! My fantasy has been: what if you run a dowel from the top bloch to the bottom block that is strong enough to take the load from the string tension. Then the top and bottom plate would not have to be strong enough to support the strings, just supply some alignment strength. So the plates and ribs could be thinner and ... There was a student VSO in Australia with a metal rod supplying support, and flat plates. I never saw a good close up picture or heard a sound clip. I have wondered... Now that I have been retired, I am planning to try for a cheap 1/2 size fiddle design that sounds decent. So I find these posts interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuval Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I have one of these Faleros with the central bar, but it looks like the bar is coming unglued. Or I may have disloged it when I reset my soundpost. Is there any advice on taking the top off? I am having trouble around the saddle and the notched part under the fingerboard. I am using a dropper with hot water and a putty knife. Iuval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacobsaunders Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi city of Schönbach in the district Löbau-Zittau, Saxony, Germany in 1887 Schönbach wasn't, isn't and never will be in Saxony. It was (in 1887) in Böhmen, which was one of the Austrian Crown lands. After WWII it was anexed to Czechoslovakia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuval Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, I succeeded in taking the top off, and the dowel is split in two. Any advice on how to fix it? Iuval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iuval Posted February 18, 2012 Report Share Posted February 18, 2012 The first pic is the whole two part dowel, the second is zooming in on the split. It doesn't look broken, but split on purpose. Should I find a 1/2 inch piece of dowel and glue the two parts together? Or leave it the way it is? <a href="http://s1166.photobucket.com/albums/q605/iuval/?action=view¤t=IMG_5714-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q605/iuval/IMG_5714-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> <a href="http://s1166.photobucket.com/albums/q605/iuval/?action=view¤t=IMG_5715.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q605/iuval/IMG_5715.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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