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Frederick Dale

Bogaro & Clemente cradle

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Jesse and Ernie, you guys disappoint me. Trying to come up with a cheaper vise, but still purchasing the Bogaro & Clemente violin cradle :o

I would have thought making the cradle wouldn't be too hard :D

Cheers, Peter

:D Just call me cheap! I consider it cheaper to buy the cradle vs the time i would take to make one, but not for the vise. So yes im cheap, just don't tell anyone ;)

Jesse

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Jesse, I certainly don't have the right to call anybody cheap, after all I bought one too.

But for me, making the cradle I can see a feasible task, but making the vise I see a very daunting task. I guess you (and Ernie) have much more metalwork experience and it isn't as daunting for you.

Cheers, Peter

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Actually, I think the B&C cradles are quite reasonably priced, or at least they were a few years ago - haven't checked recently. However, having bought one I found I really didn't like it, and now I never use it.

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Heres the cradle i made based on this Japanese guys design.I find its excellent .

Now that is a nice cradle! Are those ebony wedges?

-Ernie

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These are my shop work horses. I use one of them almost daily. My inside cradle is similar to fiddlecollecter's. There is nothing difficult or expensive about making either one of these cradles. You can see the two inserts in the inside cradle. One for the top arch and one for the back arch. I never understood the one size fits all concept. These are the high limit for my arching's so if I do one with lower arching's I fold a paper towel and put it under the insert. These inserts provide a good arch support. The cradle (for lack of a better word) for the outside is used for nearly everything related to the outside. They both chuck up in the vise so I can get around them at different angles. They are easy to turn around in the vise. The walnut one is able to tilt and turn at different angles. It's great for carving, scraping, purfling channeling, and cutting the purfling grove. I can raise it up in the vise for purfling so I'm not bent over so much. I did all this on the bench for several years, but this system is much better.

If there are any questions about these two cradles, I will be glad to answer. It will have to wait for a couple of days as I'll be away from the computer till Friday.

Berl

Cradle 1 005.bmp

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Nice Berl

How does the walnut one tilt?

Ernie, You caught me just before I left. The post that fits in the vise has eight sides, just move it to where you want it and tilt it and tighten up the vise. Works great, I don't know how I got along without it. Check all the pictures and I think you'll understand, It's pretty simple.

Berl

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This is what I use, together with my "Lada" version of the B&C "Mercedes" ball vice :) .

The 2 studs locate in shallow holes drilled in the underside of the plate. This holds the plate steady enough at any angle to do all "outside" jobs except rough arching, for which I only have to add one or two small F clamps.

IMG_0879-1.jpg?t=1291207075

I like this arrangement better than the B&C cradle because it holds steadier, and you don't have clamps at the edges getting in the way when you're doing edge fluting, etc.

For inside hollowing I set up an arrangement like this.

This gives you the benefit of being able to measure the thickness without removing the plate from the fixture. No support for the arching, but this shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion.

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This is what I use, together with my "Lada" version of the B&C "Mercedes" ball vice :) .

The 2 studs locate in shallow holes drilled in the underside of the plate. This holds the plate steady enough at any angle to do all "outside" jobs except rough arching, for which I only have to add one or two small F clamps.

IMG_0879-1.jpg?t=1291207075

I like this arrangement better than the B&C cradle because it holds steadier, and you don't have clamps at the edges getting in the way when you're doing edge fluting, etc.

For inside hollowing I set up an arrangement like this.

This gives you the benefit of being able to measure the thickness without removing the plate from the fixture. No support for the arching, but this shouldn't be necessary, in my opinion.

John, I like your set up! Where did you get the ball mount? This exactly what I have in mind only I will use an appropriate diameter trailer hitch ball.

Cheers

Fred

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Now that is a nice cradle! Are those ebony wedges?

-Ernie

No they`re delrin, it was easy to make ,the dovetails are just cut on a bandsaw and the female wooden ones just routed out and chiselled following two saw cuts. The whole thing is just a big block of alder and left over veneers

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A picture of my B&C in use, as I left the shop this evening. The button holder is too small to fit around the button in progress. I'll probably fix that RSN. I'm also, at the moment, in the running for the messiest workbench award.

post-6140-0-29153000-1291256035_thumb.jpg

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A picture of my B&C in use, as I left the shop this evening. The button holder is too small to fit around the button in progress. I'll probably fix that RSN. I'm also, at the moment, in the running for the messiest workbench award.

post-6140-0-29153000-1291256035_thumb.jpg

Chris

Nice example of what you mentioned last night...Having the ability to tilt the piece is a nice feature...I like the clamp and will probably buy one soon...just did'nt have the extra $$ to shell out right now...it looks extremely well made and sturdy...In the meantime here is how I'm using the B&C cradle...It is a turntable I guess like Don's although I have'nt seen his...Hopefully this will work for awhile. I too found the button holder piece too small...how are you going to modify yours?

-Ernie

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I too found the button holder piece too small...how are you going to modify yours?

-Ernie

If it was me, I'd probably fill in the button holder area to make a continuous supporting platform, and put clamps at either side of the button. Or move the existing clamp to one side. The button is a risky place to apply stress, particularly once the purfling is installed.

My own plate holder has swiveling fixtures at about 11 and 1 o'clock, and doesn't require anything additional at the sides. Only the bottom ones need to move in and out to clamp, so that saves the time and bother of moving 4 to 6. I'd hate to mess with all those clamps when I'm constantly taking the plate in and out during graduating.

My lower fixtures (only one actually, but two might be better) clamps with a cam, like the ones on those wooden cam clamps, so clamping and unclamping is pretty much instant, with no laborious screwing required. :lol:

Just found a partial picture. The sliding wooden dealy at the bottom end, captured by the aluminum pieces, is cam actuated, but the cam lever itself is out of the picture:

2163.jpg

See the errant gouging on the lower wooden dealy? I think Jeffrey did that when he was working for me. :D (Just kidding, Jeffrey)

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David

Interesting...Is your cradle there hollowed or do you have another one that you use for hogging out?

After seeing yours I'm now wishing I bought the clamp and not the cradle...I also thought the B&C cradle would be a good fixture to glue in bass bars...this thread has bee very helpful.

Thanks for the input!

-Ernie

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See the errant gouging on the lower wooden dealy? I think Jeffrey did that when he was working for me. :D (Just kidding, Jeffrey)

Hey... I was guilty of being cavalier when it came to sawing 'cello buttons as I recall. Always pretty careful with that big ol' gouge! :)

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I think it's one of those situations where you don't realise you need it until you've got it!

Using a plate holding fixture, I also use it to position a violin, viola, or cello vertical when setting a neck. Almost makes it too easy. :P

While working on setting the neck on #5 today, I was thinking how nice it would be to have one of those things to hold the body in various positions. I had forgotten what was involved in neck setting, as it was so long ago.

"You don't realize you need it until you're doing something awkward and then think about the perfect tool for the job."

I suppose I'll have to get (or make) one sometime, but not right now. I look forward to neck setting to be "too easy". <_<

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Bought the B&C cradle a few years back and it mostly sat unused. Until I discovered that it does wonders for the back and neck -- of the human variety. No more hunching over the work on the bench. OK, so you could elevate the work without this expense. But I find it is a big help in moving the work piece around without reclamping. And, perhaps more importantly, without reorienting the lamp which seems to have a mind of its own. It is pricey. So I applaud those who are finding homemade alternatives. But the concept is sound and for those of us already among the ranks of the AARP membership, it really makes ergonomic sense.

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Julian, You're spot on. Neck trouble, which led to neck surgery, is what brought me to the B&C. Using it, plate work is no longer as hard on the neck and shoulders. It'll be interesting to see the homemade alternatives.

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