arglebargle Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 So, Tarisio's lot # 342: estimated at 3,000-5,000. Sold for 100,000. Anyone care to guess what it really is? http://tarisio.com/pages/auction/auction_i...sCategory_ID=36 :) B) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robertdo Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 People are stupid and crazy, but this should not be a surprise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MANFIO Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't know, but the condition of the varnish and of the instrument is remarkable. This instrument has passed the modern restoration and polishing era untouched, and there are very few instruments like that. And of course the guy who got it knows what he got. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Michael Richwine Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't know, but the condition of the varnish and of the instrument is remarkable. This instrument has passed the modern restoration and polishing era untouched, and there are very few instruments like that. And of course the guy who got it knows what he got. That makes at least two people who at least thought they knew. The winning bidder didn't get there by himself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiingfiddler Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Tarisio's description of the fiddle is "late 19th century," meaning 1870+, I would think. Looking at the images (and I stress "images") it's hard to believe this fiddle isn't older than 140 years. Assuming that Tarisio was correct in dating the instrument as late 19th century, Tarisio must have seen something to make it believe it isn't as old as it looks. Maybe the buyer thought it is as old as it looks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janito Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Based on discontinuous flame, there has been mischief in the button area. The varnish on the scroll looks cheap factory. I would buy an Aston Martin (or at least 11 of the 12 pistons), for that price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1alpha Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Based on discontinuous flame, there has been mischief in the button area. The varnish on the scroll looks cheap factory. I would buy an Aston Martin (or at least 11 of the 12 pistons), for that price. There must be something, I can't see it. Perhaps it's a dream playing fiddle, but who would buy it for that money unless they were sure they could get papers for it. I am always surprised how different fiddles look from their photos, did anyone see this fiddle in the flesh so to speak? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GlennYorkPA Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 So, Tarisio's lot # 342: estimated at 3,000-5,000.Sold for 100,000. Anyone care to guess what it really is? http://tarisio.com/pages/auction/auction_i...sCategory_ID=36 :) B) Venetian, 18thC, probably Gofriller shop. I was so intrigued by lot 345, I missed this one, Darn. Glenn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janito Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Venetian, 18thC, probably Gofriller shop. I was so intrigued by lot 345, I missed this one, Darn. Glenn And you would pay $100K for it (modern neck with no obvious graft + button damage +...)? -------------- ps I must correct my earlier post. 100K would only buy ~ 7 of the 12 pistons of the AM I lust for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthias Lange Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 And you would pay $100K for it (modern neck with no obvious graft + button damage +...)?-------------- ps I must correct my earlier post. 100K would only buy ~ 7 of the 12 pistons of the AM I lust for. The neck is obviously grafted into the pegbox, which has been replaced (volute graft). This explains the "cheap" looking varnish on the pegbox, too. Venetian 18th Century sounds like a reasonable guess to me. However the buyer must have had more information and a good reason to pay 100K, I think. Matthias Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janito Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 The neck is obviously grafted into the pegbox, which has been replaced (volute graft). This explains the "cheap" looking varnish on the pegbox, too. I agree the the flame pattern of the scroll looks rather different to that ouf the neck, but I am not totally convinced because I cannot see an obvious discontinuity in the grain pattern where the 'graft' line is. Taking the G peg out and looking at the hole would provide a definitive answer. On another Forum someone used the following terminology "violins realized by famous liuthier". Perhaps in this case it might be modified to "violin realized somewhere near a famous luthier". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthias Lange Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Yes, the neck graft might be a fake but the volute graft is definitely real (easily visible in the side and back view). So if it is a fake neck graft, it doesn't mean much since the pegbox is a replacement anyway. Matthias Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ron1 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 What's going on in the upper-right bout area just inside the purfling? It looks like there has been some work there- a few of the grain lines don't match up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ron1 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 What's going on in the upper-right bout area just inside the purfling? It looks like there has been some work there- a few of the grain lines don't match up. Sorry, I meant to say on the top plate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GlennYorkPA Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Sorry, I meant to say on the top plate. Hi Ron, You're right. There is something going on there but it looks original to me. There are clearly two hands at work here not counting the restorers, so I think the discontinuity you noticed was to correct a mistake in cutting the purfling channel. I expect you were more interested in the Reindahls. I notice you certified one of them. Glenn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MANFIO Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 There is big replaced part of wood in the back, in the nut region, the flames of the added wood is reversed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Christopher Reuning Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 In my opinion, that was made by Giuseppe Dal'aglio of Mantua, early 19th C. It needs a big restoration. Obviously, the bidders thought it was better, but I am confounded as to what they think it is. I can only guess Balestrieri or Storioni...go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MANFIO Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Storioni was a name that came to my mind also... Never heard also about Ludovico Bergonzi. Why a label with the name of an unknown maker would be put inside the instrument? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GlennYorkPA Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 In my opinion, that was made by Giuseppe Dal'aglio of Mantua, early 19th C. It needs a big restoration. Obviously, the bidders thought it was better, but I am confounded as to what they think it is. I can only guess Balestrieri or Storioni...go figure. Chris, If that is your opinion, enquiring minds will ask why it was described as late 19thC. Glenn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mysticpaw Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Storioni was a name that came to my mind also...Never heard also about Ludovico Bergonzi. Why a label with the name of an unknown maker would be put inside the instrument? I think Ludovico ( or perhaps also spelled Lodovico ) was a maker in Cremona about 1740. He was a cousin of Michael Angelo Bergonzi ( who was the son of Carlo who worked in the shop of Stradivari ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MANFIO Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Yes, the spelling in Italian is "Lodovico", I will give a look in my books to see if I find something about him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Christopher Reuning Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Glenn, I am no longer responsible for Tarisio descriptions. I sold my interest in the company a year ago and remain as a consultant only. They never asked me about this one...(it probably sold for more as a "sleeper' anyway!) Chris Yes, the spelling in Italian is "Lodovico", I will give a look in my books to see if I find something about him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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