Handplane recommendation

[fiddlecollector]

I have many planes which i use by Clifton,Lie Nielsen ,Stanley,Marples, Record, and older dovetailed planes like Norris and Mathieson. Out of interest i bought one of these, a ``Quangsheng No. 6 Bedrock Pattern Foreplane``.They look quite well built but not cosmetically up to the standards or Lie Nielsen, Clifton, etc...My main complaint was tool gouge marks on the handle. But that doesnt matter for a user plane. When i got the plane the sole was perfectly flat all over ,i sharpened the blade straight across.The blade is made of something called T10 steel and sharpens quickly to a razor edge.

I tested it on plate joining and i can only say that with some initial tweaking ,its probably the best plane i have used for this purpose. I joined a maple cello back with only 2-3 strokes on each edge to make a perfect rubbed joint. This plane was taking shavings of 1/2 thou of an inch.

Anyway for anyone looking to buy a decent long plane for a fraction of the price in the UK of a Lie nielsen,then i recommend this plane.

I believe these planes have been sold under different names and supplied in the U.S . I dont know if their quality control has improved since they appeared but they are great planes now.

Ive been using this plane for around 6 months now and im still impressed.

[MANFIO]

Thanks for sharing fiddlecollector! I've been developing an allergy about posh and expensive things...It seems these planes are known in the USA by the brand name "WOOD RIVER PLANES" and they try to emulate the Lie-Nielsen planes.

Their block plane at 89.99 dollars seems to be very nice:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2080308/Wo...lock-Plane.aspx

And here their bench planes, including the #¨you have mentioned, the price is quite reasonable:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/Wo...nch-Planes.aspx

[fiddlecollector]

Thanks for sharing fiddlecollector! I've been developing an allergy about posh and expensive things...It seems these planes are known in the USA by the brand name "WOOD RIVER PLANES" and they try to emulate the Lie-Nielsen planes.

Their block plane at 89.99 dollars seems to be very nice:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2080308/Wo...lock-Plane.aspx

And here their bench planes, including the #¨you have mentioned, the price is quite reasonable:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/Wo...nch-Planes.aspx

Yes they`re the ones ,though they are cheaper in the U.S

I believe these from Dick are from the same company as well.

D-No.6

[MANFIO]

I hope they will offer more models in the near future!

[DBurns]

In the woodworking world there has been a lot of debate about these Asian factory planes.

Who Begot Who? Comparing Planes from Lie-Nielsen, Wood River and Stanley

Here is one favorable review.

Alf Review

Here is her homepage.

www.cornishworkshop.co.uk

This is another thread pointing out some of the problems with these factory planes.

Re: chinese bedrock knockoffs

"Seems Alf had a better experience than other reviewers I've read. While the WoodRiver planes appear to be decently made, more than one reviewer I've read received planes where the sides weren't square to the sole, or the mouths were poorly finished or not square to the sides. It is worthy to note that the blade is the "Chinese equivalent to W1". That may excite some and worry others. I've held a few of the WoodRiver planes, but haven't used any, so I'm only passing on other reviewers' opinions. At the US price levels, they are probably worth considering, but for my money, I'd rather save up and get a LN where I know things will be top notch and Customer Service is A number One. " - dave brown #4704706

Should one choose to buy these planes, then buying from a reputable dealer that will handle any problems may be a wise choice in the long run, even if it adds a few dollars to the purchase, since the possibility of getting a poorly manufactured plane is a possibility.

Woodcraft No. 6 WoodRiver Plane

"V3: Like our previous WoodRiver® Bench Planes, our version 3 is based on the reliable Bedrock design and feature heavy, stress-relieved ductile iron castings, fully machined adjustable frogs and A-2 blades but we took the opportunity between manufacturing runs to do a critical review and make a few improvements. We’ve changed the shape of the rear tote and increased the diameter of the blade adjustment wheel to make advancing the blade a bit easier. We improved the lateral adjustment lever and added a traditional style bearing for better control of the blade. We’ve made numerous changes to the castings that result in better “feedback” and a solid feel to the user. Working closely with our own manufacturer, we’ve continued to make improvements in machining, finish and functionality which we feel have yielded hand planes that are meant to be used and offer an extraordinary value. " - from above link

At a fraction of the cost of some other top end planes, and with development taking place, I would think that this line of planes offers a cash strapped beginner real value.

[DBurns]

The blade is made of something called T10 steel and sharpens quickly to a razor edge.

Just a note that the blade material seems to be a variable, so make sure that you check what blade comes with what plane.

"It is worthy to note that the blade is the "Chinese equivalent to W1"." - from this thread

"fully machined adjustable frogs and A-2 blades " - Woodcraft

"The solid plane bodies made from cast steel with precisely ground soles aligned at right angles to the sides, together with the 3 mm thick blades made from SK4-steel (62 HRC) signify top quality. " Dick Tools

This link should help with all the different steel designations:

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"This is the only usable scrap of data I've found regarding T-10. It is a quote from Dan Zawacki:

According to Daido steels - a japanese supply house, their brand for T-10 (also T-9, is called YK4. The japanese standard designation is SK4 and AISI is W1 or W2. Here's the composition they list for it:

C - .9-1.0

Si - .35 max

Mn - .5 max

Ni - .25 Max

I am used to seeing Vanadium in W-2, but they don't list it, instead they are listing Nickel. Does this actually meet AISI for W1 or W2?

Anyhow, they say to harden from 760*-820* C, water quench, and temper at 150* to 200*C. Being too lazy to pull up a C to F converter right now, and much too lazy to do the math the long way, I'll trust that someone else will see if these fit into typical W2 temperature ranges. If I had to venture a guess, looking at the chemistry, I'd say it's right about on the mark.

Silicon and manganese in those small quantities would be an advantage to the mill when making the steel. Not sure what the tiny bit of nickel would do. It would drop the both the austenitising temperature and the martensite start tempareature just a smidge (about 4 or 5 C), which might contribute to a nicer hamon. Or not." - from this thread

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Just something to keep in mind, as I am sure that some folks will offer/buy an aftermarket blades for these planes as well.

[fiddlecollector]

Well i have some expensive planes and i cant complain about these ,i bought mine from Workshop Heaven in the Uk.They have good customer service and high standards.

The blades are fine ,ive always prefered easily sharpened blades to these ones that take 4 hours to sharpen. I mainly use old cast steel blades.They hold a good edge. The plane was almost perfect in flatness and squareness and works just as good as any of my others.

I could say the plane out performs all my others at edge jointing.

workshop heaven

And heres the manufacturer.

qiangshengs tools

[Melvin Goldsmith]

Well i have some expensive planes and i cant complain about these ,i bought mine from Workshop Heaven in the Uk.They have good customer service and high standards.

The blades are fine ,ive always prefered easily sharpened blades to these ones that take 4 hours to sharpen. I mainly use old cast steel blades.They hold a good edge. The plane was almost perfect in flatness and squareness and works just as good as any of my others.

I could say the plane out performs all my others at edge jointing.

workshop heaven

And heres the manufacturer.

qiangshengs tools

..................

Well FC,

Coming from you with your experience of planes this is a great recommendation indeed! I am sure you considered this already before you posted but just must ask for my own curiousity as I am considering buying, given what you say and the price ......did you get an impression of the consistency of the product...i.e. do they all come out of the box that good or did you get lucky?

[Fjodor]

Thanks for the review Fiddlecollector.

Workshop Heaven also sells replacement blades. I ordered an iron for a Stanley no. 5. I haven't had a chance to try it yet so it's nice to know that the "T10" blades seems to be of good quality.

[Geoff-UK]

Sold in the UK by Rutlands I see - seem a good compromise between the higher end stuff and the cheapo.

Good to have some feedback on them - I was looking for a longer plane to use as a scrub, though Veritas scrubs are quite cheap comparatively.

Rutlands

Geoff

[fiddlecollector]

..................

Well FC,

Coming from you with your experience of planes this is a great recommendation indeed! I am sure you considered this already before you posted but just must ask for my own curiousity as I am considering buying, given what you say and the price ......did you get an impression of the consistency of the product...i.e. do they all come out of the box that good or did you get lucky?

Melvin, Ive read of a few people buying them and they seem pleased ,I dont like the grassroot handles but thats only cosmetic. The plane was as came from the factory as it was still sealed in a plastic bag inside a wooden case(with the usual Chinese oil covering), so the quality control must be quite good. The only thing i did was flattened the very end of backing iron so that it was a perfect fit against the cutting iron and the usual slight flattening of the back of the blade near the edge .It didnt need much at all.I expected to have to do this anyway.Ive did this with far more expensive planes.

There is always a chance of a bad one ,even with expensive planes,so it cant be guaranteed but going by what others say on the UK workshop forum the guy running Workshop heaven has great customer service. Ive always shyed away from cheap tools but because of the good things i heard about them i could resist ordering one and i certainly havent regretted it. Ive always used a long Mathieson dovetailed plane up until now for edge jointing ,but as i get older the weight of it was starting to be a pain, and it doesnt do as easy a job or as accurately.

Bob

[fiddlecollector]

Thanks for the review Fiddlecollector.

Workshop Heaven also sells replacement blades. I ordered an iron for a Stanley no. 5. I haven't had a chance to try it yet so it's nice to know that the "T10" blades seems to be of good quality.

The steel is like the old cast steel blades to sharpen and the edge is sharper than some of the fancy newer steels.They may not have the edge holding capacity of the stuff like A2 or S53 but they are a lot easier to sharpen. I havent resharpened the blade on mine for 6 months which is ok.

[fiddlecollector]

Sold in the UK by Rutlands I see - seem a good compromise between the higher end stuff and the cheapo.

Good to have some feedback on them - I was looking for a longer plane to use as a scrub, though Veritas scrubs are quite cheap comparatively.

Rutlands

Geoff

Yeah Rutlands have them on offer but they were out of stock when i bought mine 6 months ago and still are.

[~ Ben Conover]

Axminster do a set, 1 block plane, 1 smoothing plane, a square, and a marking gauge.

35 quid.

Beat that.

[fiddlecollector]

Axminster do a set, 1 block plane, 1 smoothing plane, a square, and a marking gauge.

35 quid.

Beat that.

The axminster planes are terrible.

[~ Ben Conover]

''The axminster planes are terrible. ''

Have you ever seen or used them ?

FC, the Axminster planes are cast iron, at a very reasonable price. I don't see what's wrong with that.

When you are talking about $200 for a block plane that' sone thing, but if you buy a jointer for shooting Cello plates,

you'd save with a standard Stanley plane fitted with a thick Japanese blade.

[fiddlecollector]

''The axminster planes are terrible. ''

Have you ever seen or used them ?

FC, the Axminster planes are cast iron, at a very reasonable price. I don't see what's wrong with that.

When you are talking about $200 for a block plane that' sone thing, but if you buy a jointer for shooting Cello plates,

you'd save with a standard Stanley plane fitted with a thick Japanese blade.

Yes i have used them.

Each to their own when tools are being talked about.

[Dean_Lapinel]

Ive always used a long Mathieson dovetailed plane up until now for edge jointing ,but as i get older the weight of it was starting to be a pain, and it doesnt do as easy a job or as accurately.

Bob

HI Bob,

This is an interesting thread. As you know, I'm a plane fanatic and I used to have a preference for planes but just recently I find myself reaching for whatever is closest. My Stephen Thomas "loopy" lives indoors so I have to give it a work out with intent. I used to primarily use my LN stuff but my Stanley 4 1/2 is always within reach and always surprises me when it works so well. I think we all have a subconscious bias and this comes out with my vintage tools. In reality my vintage planes are finely tuned so they should work well but I continue thinking of them as curiosities.

I don't know this but I suspect there is a significant variability in these planes (Wood River in the USA). However, if there is a major defect one can simply exchange it. If the plane needs attention of the same nature that a vintage plane would require then considering the heft, materials it's a huge bargain. I might add one to my collection.

Now, as to your quote above; I think it was a picture of that plane as well as Melvin's that started me on a search for a similar plane. I did find one but the mouth was too large so I sold it at a loss. If you ever consider selling your long Mathieson would you let me know?

Dean

[fiddlecollector]

HI Bob,

This is an interesting thread. As you know, I'm a plane fanatic and I used to have a preference for planes but just recently I find myself reaching for whatever is closest. My Stephen Thomas "loopy" lives indoors so I have to give it a work out with intent. I used to primarily use my LN stuff but my Stanley 4 1/2 is always within reach and always surprises me when it works so well. I think we all have a subconscious bias and this comes out with my vintage tools. In reality my vintage planes are finely tuned so they should work well but I continue thinking of them as curiosities.

I don't know this but I suspect there is a significant variability in these planes (Wood River in the USA). However, if there is a major defect one can simply exchange it. If the plane needs attention of the same nature that a vintage plane would require then considering the heft, materials it's a huge bargain. I might add one to my collection.

Now, as to your quote above; I think it was a picture of that plane as well as Melvin's that started me on a search for a similar plane. I did find one but the mouth was too large so I sold it at a loss. If you ever consider selling your long Mathieson would you let me know?

Dean

I still tend to use the Mathieson for flattening the backs of plates after gluing them so its not for sale yet. I love the look of the old planes,they scream quality.Though they do tend to be heavy which comes in handy for certain things. I have used older Stanleys and they are very good, i have a Marples plane which to all intents looks like an old Stanley ,belonged to my wifes uncle and i use it alot.

I`d love a big Holtey but couldnt justify the price,the wife would murder me and anyway i wouldnt want to use it,just look at it.

I find the Lie nielsen 102 an excellent plane and could be without it,especially for levelling the ribs., I mainly use a Slater (London) chariot plane for fingerboards,though the dealer who sold me it reckoned it was a Norris .

In general i enjoy restoring olds one up to usuable condition.

My latest project is doing up two Pultra PB2 microlathes from the 1940`s. Beautiful little lathes and more like slightly larger variations of clock/watch makers lathes.

All i can say on these planes in question is that considering how little tuning i had to do to it ,i think its a fantastic plane.

Heres a couple of photos of the lathe before and after shots.Just need to make some brass oil caps.

[Oded Kishony]

Have you ever seen a "rose engine"? it is the most amazing, beautiful and fantastic ornamental turning machine I've ever seen!

Another picture

Oded

[fiddlecollector]

Have you ever seen a "rose engine"? it is the most amazing, beautiful and fantastic ornamental turning machine I've ever seen!

Another picture

Oded

Very nice machine ,i like the brass? parts ,looks really attractive.

I re-did the nickel plating on the Pultra ,they were made in the thousand for the British war effort but are very accurate little machines,with split bronze bearings,designed to run at 10,000 rpm, but work fine at slower speeds with the bearings adjusted.

[Roger Hill]

Heres a couple of photos of the lathe before and after shots.Just need to make some brass oil caps.

nice work, Bob. How did you clean up the dials, carriage, etc? Did you have to grind the ways and re-scrape the headstock?

[fiddlecollector]

nice work, Bob. How did you clean up the dials, carriage, etc? Did you have to grind the ways and re-scrape the headstock?

A mixture of degreasing, electrocleaning and elbow grease ,the dials were well marked deeply so when electroplated the graduations could still be very well seen,and the plating didnt take so well in the grooves . I just cleaned the ways with white spirit and that slightly abrasive spongy stuff. The ways were in reasonable condition and only has a few chips in front of the chuck.Nothing that will interfere with the sliding of the tailstock and slide.

When i electroplated the cross and top slides i just masked the bearing surfaces with shellac and removed it afterwards. I dismantled the whole thing firstly though.

The saddle doesnt travel along the ways ,its just fixed in position by the large nut/knob underneath to a fixed position.

The headstock didnt need scraped or anything drastic ,the bushes are tapered on the outside and parallel inside .The adjustment is made by just tightening the large nut on the small end of the bush taper.This pulls the bush into the headstock and compress the bush slightly.When the bushes wear there is a little shim going the length of the bush that can be removed .But theres hardly any wear to the inside of the bushes, which is good as they arent made anymore .

You can see very similar bushes in this link,3/4 down the page.Its a more modern version of the Pultra .Still made to order but with taper roller bearings. All part of these lathes are interchangable like a Schaublin , you can replace the headstock or tailstock with one from another lathe and everything lines up perfectly,which makes spares somewhat easy to obtain though still expensive.

pultra bearings

[Dean_Lapinel]

I`d love a big Holtey but couldnt justify the price,the wife would murder me and anyway i wouldnt want to use it,just look at it.

Same here but one Maestronetter got away with it and owns one. You've probably seen pictures of that beauty (it lives on your side of the pond).

My latest project is doing up two Pultra PB2 microlathes from the 1940`s. Beautiful little lathes and more like slightly larger variations of clock/watch makers lathes.

Fantastic! How are the centers on your Pultra PB2? I have my unimat sl and a couple of jewelers lathes but I need something vintage and a bit larger so

I'm still looking for a South bend 9 to restore and use.

[Bill Yacey]

I use one of these Atlas 618s:

Old, but still works great.