Sign in to follow this  
Allan Speers

Advanced question re after-length & TP size.

Recommended Posts

Tailpiece weight and rigidity are two different things, and should not be confused with each other. The weight alone in a tailpiece can have a negative affect on the sound (damping), if there is too much of it. However stiffness is the important thing. You don't want your tailpiece or the tailgut to flex too much, because this movement is actually energy which is not being directed into the body via the bridge (which is what we're trying to do). So in that respect, the afterlength of your tailgut should really be determined by its stiffness properties. For instance with the nylon wittner tailguts I use I leave about a 1.5-2mm gap between the saddle and the tailpiece. Reducing to zero creates too much stiffness, and beyond 3 it's not stiff enough. If I was using a different type of tailgut the exact length might change.

It is unfortunate that these Cordeiracantabile people put such drivel on their website they develope it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I think on it, the more I believe it has to do with tension on the bridge. (flexibility behind the bridge.) That jibes with the common belief that TP weight and tailcord composition also have a pronounced effect.

I looked into the effect of the tailpiece on the bridge, and concluded that the primary tailpiece modes are far too low to have a direct effect on bridge motion. The afterlength connection is just too soft to have much direct effect on the bridge, at least for lateral movement (in vertical vibrations, the afterlength is angled, and therefore much stiffer, so there could be some influence). I did a simple test of adding 20 and 46 grams of clay to the tailpiece, and found the biggest change in the B1+ mode amplitude and frequency. I can not totally rule out a non-radiating resonance in the tailpiece, but this is generally what I would expect... a change in tailpiece mass should be similar to that of chinrest mass: affecting modes where the endblock of the body moves... i.e. the B modes, primarily. I did see some minor shifts in peaks in the "transition hill" (~800 - 1500 Hz), but higher frequencies were basically unaffected.

In short, as I see it:

TP mass won't directly affect bridge lateral vibrations, but influence sound by either creating a non-radiating resonance, or modifying the structural modes of the body that have activity at the endblock.

There might be some more direct influence on vertical bridge vibrations, but this is probably very minor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The weight alone in a tailpiece can have a negative affect on the sound (damping), if there is too much of it. However stiffness is the important thing. You don't want your tailpiece or the tailgut to flex too much, because this movement is actually energy which is not being directed into the body via the bridge (which is what we're trying to do).

That's not an absolute, David. For arguments, sake, one could say this is the simplistic approach of "more is better."

The violin as currently developed might be specifically "balanced" for a specific amount of energy directed through the bridge. MORE energy might be a bad thing, no one really knows, do they? The trade-off might be sustain, or that "singing" quality we all love. - Or maybe something else. Perhaps too much energy could even "overload" the top plate, or change its spectral distribution. Who knows?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I looked into the effect of the tailpiece on the bridge, and concluded that the primary tailpiece modes are far too low to have a direct effect on bridge motion. .....

In short, as I see it:

TP mass won't directly affect bridge lateral vibrations, but influence sound by either creating a non-radiating resonance, or modifying the structural modes of the body that have activity at the endblock.

There might be some more direct influence on vertical bridge vibrations, but this is probably very minor.

-Good info, but I'm not discussing tailpiece MASS. I'm discussing movement of the strings behind the bridge, and tension (both vertical & horizontal) on the bridge.

Do you have any thoughts re my original query?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.