Need Help Identifying and Advice of Old Violin/Fiddle

[AvaSaint]

I am so happy to have found this site, it seems to have a great deal of information and I'm hoping that someone can help me out with how old and what kind of violin I have found.

My father played the fiddle now and then and there is a tag on the bow with his first name. On the inside of the fiddle I found a tag with this on it:

Repaired By: RICHARD THORNSBERRY, Richland MO 65556 7/4/1974

So it seems that my father did have it repaired but is now in a bit of a mess. I have the pieces that are off but again have no idea if it's worth repairing and selling. Or is it best to just sell it as is. It looks pretty old and the case it's in is very old.

Can anyone help me? It would be greatly appreciated.

[jmannsback]

Hello,

From what I can see in the pics your violin was made in a factory in Germany, between the late 19th to early 20th century. Then again it could have been made by the Jackson Guldan Co, in the USA. Take it to a luthier or fiddle shop in your area, ask for an estimate to put in order then go from there.

jmann

[AvaSaint]

Hello,

From what I can see in the pics your violin was made in a factory in Germany, between the late 19th to early 20th century. Then again it could have been made by the Jackson Guldan Co, in the USA. Take it to a luthier or fiddle shop in your area, ask for an estimate to put in order then go from there.

jmann

Thanks so much for responding so quickly. I need to find some one close to take it to. Does it look like there is a lot of damage just by viewing the pics? My dad would be so upset, wish I knew what happened to it?

Again... thanks....

Ava

[jmannsback]

Take pictures of the front and back portrait style not laying flat or at odd angles. If you can see cracks the violin is damaged and they'll need to be repaired.

jmann

[FiddleDoug]

It's almost impossible to tell what needs to be done to fix a violin by just looking at pictures. Sure, you can pick out obvious flaws that need to be addressed, but there are many things that go into it. A bit like saying "Here's a picture of my car. How much will it cost to fix it?" Take it to a good local luthier for evaluation. The case might burn well (zero value).

[lyndon]

just on the colour i would have thought czech is a possibility, violins like this are usually worth between 300 and a 1000, fully restored which in your case might be more than the value of the violin, on ebay you might get 100-200 as is, but youll have to do much better with the pictures, good luck

[Mark Neukirchen]

It looks like a Rubus copy.

http://www.elderly.com/items/110U-4823.htm

[Will L]

Take a close look at the ribs in the first picture. The bigger picture is blurred for me, but it looks like the violin has those rounded convex ribs, but I can't really tell. We need a different or better picture or two. I forget what country did that but I don't think it was Germany.

It would be nice to have a picture of the head and frog of the bow, just in case.

Will L

[McBenet]

The 4 fine tuners on the tailpiece indicate is was set up as a beginning student violin, either for your father or for whoever owned it prior. The fact that they are still very, very shiney tells me they have not been on the violin for a great deal of time.

I find the ribs interesting as they seem to be slightly curved out from the body and and are not recessed in from the edge of the top and bottom plates. I have only seen a very few like that and they were usually Russian or Gypsie (Romanian) from post WW II. I personally find them very interesting although in my very, very limited experience the sound quality varys greatly from one to the next. Still, I kind of like the way they look.

Let us know if you find someone to look it over in person and tell us what they think.

-----Barry

[fiddlesurgeon]

The 4 fine tuners on the tailpiece indicate is was set up as a beginning student violin, either for your father or for whoever owned it prior. The fact that they are still very, very shiney tells me they have not been on the violin for a great deal of time.

I disagree with the four fine tuners meaning beginning student violin. For Blue Grass and Country fiddlers, fine tuners on all strings is pretty much the standard.

To AvaSaint, I'll give you the highly optimistic viewpoint. The only missing parts I see are the bridge (you said you had the loose parts, was this what you meant?) and the E string tuning peg, but I see a tuning peg loose in the box, and there is not an E String on the instrument as I see. Maybe all that is needed is one E string (<$10) and re-setting the bridge and tensioning the strings. It sounds like you don't feel comfortable doing this, and I agree with others on taking it to the luthier, but if you know any experienced string players, you might try asking them (if its just resetting the bridge that is). But, your other issue is the bow is unplayable. but the good news, can be rehaired, which is normal time-to-time maintenance for bows. There is a link to a site for sending bows for rehairing on MaestroNet. That is $30 - $50, which you might want to weigh against the cost of an inexpensive bow. A luthier/instrument dealer would be good to consult on the value of bow with rehairing.

[McBenet]

I disagree with the four fine tuners meaning beginning student violin. For Blue Grass and Country fiddlers, fine tuners on all strings is pretty much the standard.

fiddlesurgeon,

That is a good point which completlely escaped my normaly flawless memory (PFFFFFFFT - FOFLMAO). I would still wonder about the new looking "shinney" fine tuners. Anytime a "old" violin is presented to me for possible puchase, the presence of "new" items on the "old" fiddle always beg for an explanation. Guess that's just one of my quirks.

-----Barry

[McBenet]

I find the ribs interesting as they seem to be slightly curved out from the body and and are not recessed in from the edge of the top and bottom plates. I have only seen a very few like that and they were usually Russian or Gypsie (Romanian) from post WW II. I personally find them very interesting although in my very, very limited experience the sound quality varys greatly from one to the next. Still, I kind of like the way they look.

-----Barry

Found this on eBay this evening. Might help:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Russian-S-Kiap...=item4151fee7c2

-----Barry

[cjstuff]

This violin looks to me like a standard "Richard Rubus" German trade violin made for Russian export. I'd peg it at late 19th-early 20th century. I think these are neat-looking instruments, even with cheap finish, and the thinner-than-average ribs of many of them make for some interesting (not necessarily poor) tonal qualities compared to other trade fiddles of the time. I don't believe that they're graduated particularly well, though.

Be aware that some luthiers will be very reluctant to take the top off to repair cracks--it takes a fair amount of fiddling (no pun intended) to fit the tops back on as precisely as they were before removal. Usually, it never looks quite as good as it did originally, unless you take the heretical step of trimming any overhanging wood off the table. I believe that these were assembled as conventional violins and trimmed once the tops were glued in place?

[Fellow]

I am so happy to have found this site, it seems to have a great deal of information and I'm hoping that someone can help me out with how old and what kind of violin I have found.

My father played the fiddle now and then and there is a tag on the bow with his first name. On the inside of the fiddle I found a tag with this on it:

Repaired By: RICHARD THORNSBERRY, Richland MO 65556 7/4/1974

So it seems that my father did have it repaired but is now in a bit of a mess. I have the pieces that are off but again have no idea if it's worth repairing and selling. Or is it best to just sell it as is. It looks pretty old and the case it's in is very old.

Can anyone help me? It would be greatly appreciated.

+++++++++++++++++

Since it had been repaired in 1974, now the year is only 2010. It is not too long ago in my opinion.

You can have it repaired to a condition that is playable without costing you a lot of money. Find a luthier

who is good and reasonable.That is someone who do not use wrong kind of glues and does not do repair work more than necessary.

Ask him or her to tell you what is needed to repair and the price of repair up front.

[FiddleDoug]

Trying to look closer at the pictures, there appears to be some damage to the lower bass edge (fuzzy picture), and I see what appears to be at least seam separation on the whole bass side. If there are pieces broken off of the top edge, or other significant damage, repairs could get quite expensive. Take it to a luthier.

[Fellow]

Trying to look closer at the pictures, there appears to be some damage to the lower bass edge (fuzzy picture), and I see what appears to be at least seam separation on the whole bass side. If there are pieces broken off of the top edge, or other significant damage, repairs could get quite expensive. Take it to a luthier.

++++++++++

I would guess the missing bridge is stored inside the violin (through f-hole).

I have seen a violin like that. There is no missing part at all.

I would not be that craze to say you could save the bow hair.

Open seams are not difficult to repair. commercial hide glue would be good enough. ($70-$150 covers everything, possible ?)

Remember I am a consumer, on your side guy.

[fiddlesurgeon]

fiddlesurgeon,

That is a good point which completlely escaped my normaly flawless memory (PFFFFFFFT - FOFLMAO). I would still wonder about the new looking "shinney" fine tuners. Anytime a "old" violin is presented to me for possible puchase, the presence of "new" items on the "old" fiddle always beg for an explanation. Guess that's just one of my quirks.

-----Barry

I'm having a little issue with this on an old JTL. Everything counted as fittings is junk, dyed fruit wood

pegs, tailpiece, cheezy tail pin. So, when I sell it, should I still throw all that stuff in the case with it

to keep its value

[McBenet]

I'm having a little issue with this on an old JTL. Everything counted as fittings is junk, dyed fruit wood

pegs, tailpiece, cheezy tail pin. So, when I sell it, should I still throw all that stuff in the case with it

to keep its value

fiddlesurgeon,

Short answer, NO.

It was not my intent to say that any NEW part on an old violin was a problem. I specifically said:

"Anytime a "old" violin is presented to me for possible puchase, the presence of "new" items on the "old" fiddle always beg for an explanation." (emphasis added)

I am not by any means an expert at figureing out how old a violin is, where it came from or who made it. What I do have experience in (among other things) is people comming to me with "Great-grandpa's violin that was found in the attic of the family farm after having not been seen for 100 years." Often, "great-grandpa's violin" comes to me with a few scuffs in the varnish and some pretty new looking "parts" here and there. Sometimes, it turns out to not be old enough to be Dads violin, much less Great-grandpa's, sometimes it is.

Because they are often presented to me for purchase, I want an explanation that satisfies me that this violin is genuine and old, or if it's not, can be purchased at a price that I can sell it as a reproduction at a profit.

My position is:

1) Every violin has some value.

2) If purchased at the right price, every violin can be sold at a profit.

3) I will never knowingly missrepresent anything I sell to a customer.

4) I am not a retail customer. I buy to sell at a profit.

5) The only thing worse than passing up a great violin is to pay more than it is worth and lose money on it.

When I buy a violin to repair or restore and then re-sell, I document everything I have done to the violin in quetion. That document then becomes part of the violins "provenence". Because I do not buy $100,000.00 violins for re-sale, my documentation is often the only "known provenance" the violin has, but it is all legitimate and provable. If I put new pegs on a violin, it is in my records. If I cut a new bridge for a violin, it is in my records. New strings, repaired cracks, photos, anything and everything AND a copy goes with the violin when I sell it, regardless of the value of the violin. It's just the way I am. Possibly a bit anal compulsive but it's the way I do business.

With all of that in mind, my statement is and was:

"Anytime a "old" violin is presented to me for possible puchase, the presence of "new" items on the "old" fiddle always beg for an explanation. Guess that's just one of my quirks."

-----Barry