The ol' mans Ventapane


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Today, he remembers nothing of his accomplishments.

Anyhow, I hope you treasure and keep this little bit your dad left behind.

How I wish they could stay tuned. (tears)

Mike

As to his accomplishments perhaps they were not the most important thing in his life. He seems to remember his loyal and loving son.

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  • 8 months later...

Remember your instrument is always worth less going into a shop

than out. The denial of authenticity followed by an offer to buy

sounds more than suspicious. More like criminal.

That being said, here is a picture of a Ventapane cello for

your viewing pleasure.

If you can find an honest dealer who will appraise the violin

for you, please do. You must realize that most dealers will either

want to consign the instrument before giving an appraisal, or

charge 10% or more of the actual value for a certification.

Very few major dealers will simply hand you an appraisal if it's real;

that's for them tantamout to giving you 200K when they're not even making

a penny.

I'm sorry to tell you the art world is as corrupt as it gets.

Best of luck with your violin!

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"The denial of authenticity followed by an offer to buy

sounds more than suspicious."

Just because a violin is not what the label says does not mean that it doesn't have value. A knowledgeable post early on in this discussion mentioned "French, 1850." In good shape, as this violin is, that's not chopped liver. More generally, if one isn't prepared to listen to expert advice, why seek it out? Not knowing anything about this particular violin, I like it and would be interested in buying it, too. Hope that doesn't make me a crook. :rolleyes:

Richard

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I wonder if someone could do a photoshop f-hole overlay? in order to see the difference?

I thought I would give it a try. I adjusted for size as best as I could and I altered the colors to make it easier to see. the blue is the instrument in question. the white is the known instrument. You can see that the white is only off a little especially at the top area of the lower F hole circle. And a little along the left edge of the F. See the arrows.

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Remember your instrument is always worth less going into a shop

than out. The denial of authenticity followed by an offer to buy

sounds more than suspicious. More like criminal.

That being said, here is a picture of a Ventapane cello for

your viewing pleasure.

If you can find an honest dealer who will appraise the violin

for you, please do. You must realize that most dealers will either

want to consign the instrument before giving an appraisal, or

charge 10% or more of the actual value for a certification.

Very few major dealers will simply hand you an appraisal if it's real;

that's for them tantamout to giving you 200K when they're not even making

a penny.

I'm sorry to tell you the art world is as corrupt as it gets.

Best of luck with your violin!

Wow...that is one beautiful cello.

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I'm wondering where the comments are about the holes? What would be the chances of those holes being so similar? Being one who makes violins, I don't see this experimentation in lower hole size as "wild" and or something that a maker would not play with. Because to me those holes look darn close and most likely carved by the same hand, or someone REAL talented and transferring ff's

There was no "photo copy machine" whereas a copyist who was trying to fake a Ventapane would have access to the design, unless of course they had one in front of them to copy.

And then during his life, was he someone one would aspire to copy?

To me it would be one thing if this violin just popped up on ebay, but there seems to be an established record of its ownership that could put it within times grasp related to authenticity.

And frankly, to my untrained eye, I see many similarities in workmanship between the two.

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If it is old Italian, people assume it is a master, and that rough work has "character" or is skilled workmanship executed in an easy and casual manner. I suppose you could look for consistency in the eight corners, if they still exist in original form. If it is made by a modern maker who cannot command a high price, then the workmanship is indifferent or rough.

Other opinions will differ.

Not mine.

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That is one delicious looking violin regardless of make. I love the scroll. Seems to have come from someone at one point who did a lot of gig work or orchestral, hence the 2 fine tuners. Quality pegs. I would travel to try one out like that, but I'm in Ontario. Get it into the hands of some professional symphony players and get their reaction. If it is less than brilliant, it would probably just need a new setup and regular playing. Congratulations on rescuing it from the closet. Treasure it.

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something for comparison (two Ventapane from around 1800 - presumably Lorenzo)

f- holes seem not out of the equation but the C-bouts look more Stradivari model to me.

To my untrained eyes, the top violin is really very different in every aspect from the 2 below. The corners, the heel of the scroll. Even the f-holes are way apart (longer, narrower, not the same location...) If the top violin is from the same maker then it would mean that one maker can completely change his/her style and therefore it would be more than tricky for any expert to assess them.

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Hey Reed,

I love the varnish job on your Dad's violin. The deep flame is great.

We share a sad story: My Dad is 92 with Alzheimers in an assisted living place. I saw him today and all he could say was "What's New?" Dad was one of the best die stampings designer in the industry. Ask Timex watches. Today, he remembers nothing of his accomplishments.

Anyhow, I hope you treasure and keep this little bit your dad left behind.

How I wish they could stay tuned. (tears)

Mike

Mike, by virtue of a difficult life experience, you have hit right on the true value of this violin, be it a Ventapane or not. Reed, do as others have suggested - take the instrument to a reputable shop for appraisal (or attribution, if possible), and then bring her home to retain as a family heirloom.

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To my untrained eyes, the top violin is really very different in every aspect from the 2 below. The corners, the heel of the scroll. Even the f-holes are way apart (longer, narrower, not the same location...) If the top violin is from the same maker then it would mean that one maker can completely change his/her style and therefore it would be more than tricky for any expert to assess them.

Robertdo,

I think you are being modest about your eyes.

The violin in question is very nice but was not made in the Ventapane shop.

I have a Ventapane, probably Lorenzo but I think he used assistants because the workmanship is terrible.

Amateurish chiseling, weird outline, childish purfling and rather plain wood so how do we explain the 'Italian' peformance?

Silvery, responsive and focussed sound.

I can't explain it.

It seems these Italian makers knew what was important and what is not.

Glenn

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Lorenzo Ventapane in the upcoming (1 May 2011) Skinner auction:

http://www.skinnerinc.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=2544B+++++58+&refno=++891530ℑ=2

A nice example but I'm shocked at the estimate.

In their day, these violins were considered cheap and cheerful but now they have acquired the halo of sanctity surrounding all old Italian instruments.

Glenn

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A nice example but I'm shocked at the estimate.

In their day, these violins were considered cheap and cheerful but now they have acquired the halo of sanctity surrounding all old Italian instruments.

Glenn

At 349 mm back length, this fiddle is somewhat on the shorter side compared to standard 356, and the maple doesn't look exceptional in terms of flame. The price seems to be in the pedigree. It looks like the market for 19th century Italian instruments is a collector's market, not a players.

For a player on a budget, it might be worth taking your $50,000 to shop for a contemporary instrument (or two) or a late 19th/early 20th century German/Czech/Austrian/Hungarian.

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Off topic a little, but anytime I see the name Ventapane, it conjures up a mental image of a kid with a slingshot in his back pocket running the opposite direction from a window pane with a fresh hole punched through it by a rock!:)

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Off topic a little, but anytime I see the name Ventapane, it conjures up a mental image of a kid with a slingshot in his back pocket running the opposite direction from a window pane with a fresh hole punched through it by a rock!:)

Really....? More like a wiff of freshly baked bread in the air.

Piping_hot_bread_in_a_basket_100927-209786-196009.jpg

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