How about these f holes?


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Im at the stage of locating the f holes of mt OP.1 I am quite scared as I am aware of how important is a proper location.

What do you think, masters? Shouldn't they be little more vertical?

DSCN4681R.JPG

Please don't be cruel (or do :) )

I think they slant a bit too much.

What pattern did you use for a template? The overall shape doesn't appeal to me too much - the wings look clumsy, especially the upper ones. In relation to those the stem looks a bit too narrow, the width too uniform and the inner edge too straight.

I hope that wasn't too cruel :)

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Im at the stage of locating the f holes of mt OP.1 I am quite scared as I am aware of how important is a proper location.

What is wrong with drawing a new f-hole with slightly modified estension throughout. You can put your holes on graph paper and rescetch. The way to do this is to use tracing paper and multiple erasures etc. When close, fold over paper and rescetch latest version. Use this new one to continue refinement. Repeat as often as needed.

Now I see the objection. You want to copy somebody else's f-holes. But you can reshape in the spirit of another maker, or you can realize that any old maker would have adjusted the f-s to the position of the round holes.

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Im at the stage of locating the f holes of mt OP.1 I am quite scared as I am aware of how important is a proper location.

What do you think, masters? Shouldn't they be little more vertical?

DSCN4681R.JPG

Please don't be cruel (or do :) )

Nice drafting and layout.

I think f holes should be to ones own liking and are very personal. I prefer Guanarius style vs stradivarius et al.:)

As suggested you could re sketch or cut and do bass bar. :)

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Thank you everyone for your answers and tips.

Jacob, this is supposed to be a Strad template I bought from Atlantic Violin Supplies. At least is what they sold me. I also think they were too slant so I have redraw everything and reset the templates. Now my f holes look like this:

DSCN4685.JPG

I have tried to keep averything under the 32-64-128 mm relationships. Surprisingly they fit.

But won't cut until I finish the edges of the top, as you can see I have to finish the corners, overhangs and so. Probably then I will have to move the holes again. This is a very nice piece of spruce from the Alps, and I would't like to screw things up.

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Almost certainly as you start cutting the Fs the knife will slip slightly in various places, and with corrections the shape will move; so I would not obsess at this stage.

Having said that, I am with Jacob - as you adjust the knife cuts bear in mind these points.

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Prior to cut them, I would make paper models and play with them in the arched side, looking to see how they will look. I would pay some attention to how they look when viewd from profile, they should be a bit paralell to the rib cage.

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Michael Strado Darnton mentioned here some years ago that he cuts his f holes while the top is rather thick, so that he can make some adjustments in the archings, if he finds it necessary, I like this idea.

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Thank you everyone for your answers and tips.

Jacob, this is supposed to be a Strad template I bought from Atlantic Violin Supplies. At least is what they sold me. I also think they were too slant so I have redraw everything and reset the templates. Now my f holes look like this:

I have tried to keep averything under the 32-64-128 mm relationships. Surprisingly they fit.

But won't cut until I finish the edges of the top, as you can see I have to finish the corners, overhangs and so. Probably then I will have to move the holes again. This is a very nice piece of spruce from the Alps, and I would't like to screw things up.

If you did what I suggested, you went too far. There is a sudden bend at the bottom and then the inside line goes straight. Rather than look for smooth curves, I look for a non-sudden change of curvature.

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I personally find the f-holes sooooo much easier to "see" with the purfling installed.

It's kind of like looking at an idea of a violin, rather then the actual thing.

I'm aware that this is the order of work for a lot of people, but it never made any sense to me.

Oh well :)

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I personally find the f-holes sooooo much easier to "see" with the purfling installed.

It's kind of like looking at an idea of a violin, rather then the actual thing.

I'm aware that this is the order of work for a lot of people, but it never made any sense to me.

Oh well :)

Antonio managed to "see" the picture :)

Nicolas, If your violin is based on a Strad, then I am with Jacob, his analysis is spot-on in my opinion. Your second version looks now too straight to me and lacks the "elegance" - difficult to put in words. Also I suggest you make the stem opening at the widest point over 6mm to assist in easier placement of the soundpost.

I "modeled" my f holes after the Titian (from the poster) and this worked for me.

Cheers, Peter

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Thank you again. Certainly I will not cut the holes until the purfling is installed, this is only an excercise for correctly placing the f-holes. As I said before I have to finish the outline and install the purfling.

Manfio, I like the idea of the paper holes before. Will try that. Thank you for the pics.

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Thank you again. Certainly I will not cut the holes until the purfling is installed, this is only an excercise for correctly placing the f-holes. As I said before I have to finish the outline and install the purfling.

Manfio, I like the idea of the paper holes before. Will try that. Thank you for the pics.

If I understand your aims correctly - to get the f-holes done as well as possible in every way - the first thing I would do is to ditch the template you have - it really has very little aesthetic or stylistic merit, in my view. Work from a photocopy of an f-hole you like - there are various Strad patterns which you can look at in various sources. Resize if necessary, and then make a template. If you draw on the inside of a cutout, keep in mind that the drawing will be slightly smaller than the original, and if you draw on the outside like in Manfio's example, it will be slightly bigger. I like to use a template with small holes punched exactly on the line. That enables me to reproduce the pattern on the template more accurately. I do this even when I design my own f-holes. I can then cut exactly on the line, as opposed to aiming for the inside or the outside to compensate for drawing inside or around a template.

The second placement you showed looks better for sure. Upright can work, and slightly slanted outwards towards the bottom can also work. Avoid too much outward slant or any amount of inward slant.

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Cut your holes yet ?

I did two sets of f holes and two bass bars since yesterday.

Cheers.

Ben, unfortunately it does take a bit longer for us beginners. By the way, on your template, what is the extra hole for?

Nicolas, As mentioned, I made my templates from the strad poster. I used a copy of the poster to transfer f hole outline on the plastic foil. I did place them a bit further apart to cater for a wider modern bridge. And your personal touch will happen automatically when you cut them. :)

Fholes.jpg

I think to purchase a book with lots of violin pictures (like the Charles Beare book) is a worthwhile investment as it helps to "teach" your eye about all the little subtleties.

Cheers, Peter

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There are some great F holes pictures in the cheap Dover version of the Hill Strad book.

My teacher insisted that the student look at an F hole image as it was being cut out. The template was used for positioning and rough cut-out, not for detail.

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The extra hole is for hanging the templet on a nail, should one feel the urge.

Normally I just chuck em in a drawer, they are also numbered, to keep em in order.

I like the Baldantoni look and wonder if it will make the plate much stiffer than say, a big Guad.

Copied all my templets from a German book, I photocopied it and stuck em all on plastic then just cut em out with a knife.

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Nicolas, it seems as if you were using the Darnton method for the placement. You will probably find this method more secure if you use a less wayward template. Make sure you measure the distance for the intended purfling from the edge accurately in the lower corners - to me your lateral lines look a bit low. Similarly for the 64mm arc from the lower eyes where it intersects the purfling in the c-bout. Misjudging either of these can seriously affect the stance of the f-hole placement.

With the Darnton method, if your outline is reasonably "standard" Cremonese, and with more standard Strad-style f-hole templates, you should end up with a distance between the upper eyes somewhere between 40mm and 42mm. With the template you are currently using, with its inwards-leaning upper and lower eyes, the tendency will be towards the excessively-slanted f-holes like in your first illustration.

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Cut your holes yet ?

I did two sets of f holes and two bass bars since yesterday.

Cheers.

:) :) Not yet. Sunday with the kids at the theme park. I am exhausted.

I have no hurry at all, this is the advantage of doing this as a hobby. I earn my life making bridges, tunnels and roads. I started this project in December, and hope to finish this #1 by the end of the summer.

Thank you again everyone for all your imputs.

I promise to post pics of the "thing" as I finish.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Today I went to get a coffee and I saw in the distance a newspaper/magazine with a capital F on the title. Only when I got nearer I realised I was mistaken but here is a crude drawing of what I thought I had seen.

What do you think the effect of this kind of design (I am only referring to the extra piece of wood that would be cut just below the round holes) would be on the sound?

post-29661-1279416008_thumb.jpg

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