Vibrato Machine

[Johnmasters]

This is a chin-operated vibrato device. Perhaps could be used by a folk musician or bluegrass person.

A couple of refinements are needed. The end at the bottom is propped up with a match box. I need to have a compression spring under there.

The chin pushes down on the lower end and the little postage-stamp sized wood part pushes up the string afterlength. I need a more flexible string of gut to tie it up.

A string goes through two little holes in the bridge, the two holes in the little wood part, and up to the lever. When the chin side is pushed down, the other end goes down. The spring return allows the little wood piece to stretch and relax the afterportion of the strings. Thus causing a vibrato effect.

This causes a vibrato. Rock guitars have such a vibrato lever, but it is of a different design. This one is probably not the best design, but perhaps somebody has a suggestion.

Any comments? How does it strike you ?

[matthew tucker]

(checks date ... hmmm ... April 1 was a couple of months ago ... )

[jezzupe]

This is a chin-operated vibrato device. Perhaps could be used by a folk musician or bluegrass person.

A couple of refinements are needed. The end at the bottom is propped up with a match box. I need to have a compression spring under there.

The chin pushes down on the lower end and the little postage-stamp sized wood part pushes up the string afterlength. I need a more flexible string of gut to tie it up.

A string goes through two little holes in the bridge, the two holes in the little wood part, and up to the lever. When the chin side is pushed down, the other end goes down. The spring return allows the little wood piece to stretch and relax the afterportion of the strings. Thus causing a vibrato effect.

This causes a vibrato. Rock guitars have such a vibrato lever, but it is of a different design. This one is probably not the best thing to make, but somebody tried it years ago.

Any comments? How does it strike you ?

I don't see why any competent player would want that. Vibrato is simple enough by hand once learned and also has many more variations with type, speed,swell and dynamic. I would also worry about stretching the strings out prematurely. Violins are not Jackson flying v's. If however it has a unique vibrato unlike others, that may be enticing. But there again I would just bridge mic it and go into processor for that.

[Guest erich_zann]

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[Johnmasters]

Interesting......a Rube Goldberg vibrato.......

E...

A few comments, I am waiting for a few more. Thanks. I know vibrato is common and easy,.. now.

(checks date ... hmmm ... April 1 was a couple of months ago ... )

Don't laugh yet.

. Violins are not Jackson flying v's. If however it has a unique vibrato unlike others, that may be enticing. But there again I would just bridge mic it and go into processor for that.

Is the "flying v" a reference to the hinged lever?

No, it is not an especially unusual sound, and fast vibrato would be difficult. It only operates on the two middle strings. Maybe at one time that is where most playing was done (which needed vibrato).

[Tim Put]

Is the "flying v" a reference to the hinged lever?

http://www.google.ca/images?client=opera&a...ved=0CDQQsAQwAA

[McBenet]

Can you say "whamy bar"???????????

Why not make a bracket that would reach across the violin and mount a whammy bar under the tail piece or under the strings behind the bridge with the bar extending back to your chin rather than forward like on a guitar and then you could "go Jimmie Hindricks" on your violin.

-----Barry

[Johnmasters]

Can you say "whamy bar"???????????

-----Barry

Ha Ha. But what can you say about it? This is not a joke. I don't usually waste my time doing foolish things.

[Don Noon]

Any comments? How does it strike you ?

More complex and possibly more difficult to operate than the usual vibrato method.

Perhaps if you put frets on the violin, there might be a use for it.

[McBenet]

Ha Ha. But what can you say about it? This is not a joke. I don't usually waste my time doing foolish things.

Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute!! You post a picture of a couple of pieces of cut up paint stir sticks, held together with nails and a piece of what looks like baleing wire, balanced on a matchbox; you pooh pooh my idea about modifying an existing and common technology; and then you say: "This is not a joke."

You're just yankin my chain aintcha.

-----Barry

[zefir68]

I don't see why any competent player would want that. Vibrato is simple enough by hand once learned and also has many more variations with type, speed,swell and dynamic. I would also worry about stretching the strings out prematurely. Violins are not Jackson flying v's. If however it has a unique vibrato unlike others, that may be enticing. But there again I would just bridge mic it and go into processor for that.

As one of the few teachers on this forum, I must disagree with the "vibrato is simple enough" statement. It is one of the hardest skills to teach and it is a component that is often a factor in identifying differences and preferences between great string players. The device in question: sorry. No practical application.

[hollenbach]

As one of the few teachers on this forum, I must disagree with the "vibrato is simple enough" statement. It is one of the hardest skills to teach and it is a component that is often a factor in identifying differences and preferences between great string players. The device in question: sorry. No practical application.

One of my former teachers was of the philosophy that vibrato couldn't and shouldn't be "taught." The student's hand would simply decide when it was time. A strange method, but I can say that most of her students are consistently praised for the fineness of their vibrato.

However, I agree that this doesn't have much of a practical application and I imagine the player engaging the contraption would look thus:

[jezzupe]

As one of the few teachers on this forum, I must disagree with the "vibrato is simple enough" statement. It is one of the hardest skills to teach and it is a component that is often a factor in identifying differences and preferences between great string players. The device in question: sorry. No practical application.

Perhaps you are misinterpreting what I am saying, and or left a part out..."vibrato is simple enough"...."once learned". Implying that one has already learned how to do it, if one has mastered it and all its variations and nuances is another subject all together...

Perhaps I would say...."Once one has learned how to vibrato with the hand, why would they want to take what is now a natural and easy way to express their musical voice ,with vibrato, and replace it with a rat trap stretched out on the tailpiece tweaking my $80 Evah's?" capiche'?

[Johnmasters]

Now wait just a cotton pickin' minute!! You post a picture of a couple of pieces of cut up paint stir sticks, held together with nails and a piece of what looks like baleing wire, balanced on a matchbox; you pooh pooh my idea about modifying an existing and common technology; and then you say: "This is not a joke."

You're just yankin my chain aintcha.

-----Barry

About the vibrato, yes. The baling wire is an A-string. Pure gut would be much better. The matchbox is, as I say, a substitute for a compression spring which one would put in to hold it up. The nails are just axles and the wood is about 4mm thick, a slice of maple.

Thanks for being a good sport. Now see the thread "What Saconni did not know."

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Do you have pics of the original thing? I have a vague memory of it.

[NewNewbie]

Has anyone seen a picture of item nos. 502 - 504?

[Johnmasters]

Do you have pics of the original thing? I have a vague memory of it.

I have it. I want to hold off until there are more postings. My rendition is pretty much to scale. The major hint is the small slip of wood shaped like the Heinze Ketchup logo.

Has anyone seen a picture of item nos. 502 - 504?

That is the item. See new thread "What Saconni did not know." I would have thought he would have posted a picture of the one thing he could not identify.

And I can give at least two arguments as to why it is not a mute.

"Question [as to what this is] this is that to which one attaches the cord." This is a rough translation of the legend on the pattern of the upper half. An Italian friend says it is in a dialect, and that probably is why the note starts with the word "question."

My cord is a metal-wrapped A string. A gut cord would be much better. Less slippery.

[McBenet]

About the vibrato, yes. The baling wire is an A-string. Pure gut would be much better. The matchbox is, as I say, a substitute for a compression spring which one would put in to hold it up. The nails are just axles and the wood is about 4mm thick, a slice of maple.

Thanks for being a good sport. Now see the thread "What Saconni did not know."

I've had a good time playing along , but I'm still thinking there there has got to be an applacation for a whammy bar on a violin . OK, now I'm playin'. There is nothing that it would do that I couldn't do a lot easyer with a footpedal and my EV.

It's been fun ,

-----Barry

[Johnmasters]

I've had a good time playing along , but I'm still thinking there there has got to be an applacation for a whammy bar on a violin . OK, now I'm playin'. There is nothing that it would do that I couldn't do a lot easyer with a footpedal and my EV.

It's been fun ,

-----Barry

I am sure you may be right. I should acknowledge that. However, my aim was not to invent something. You get points for both sportsmanship and the fresh idea Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American people, so yes, I think somebody is likely going to get rich developing such a thing.

[chrisandcello]

Somewhere I've seen a chinrest mounted to (part of) the tailpiece to get the same effect....personally I wouldn't pursue it....guess the strings would snap at the bridge after a while. Only useful for whammying chords maybe...Hendrix has a lot to answer for (in the best possible sense of course )

[Michael_Molnar]

Now, how would a player apply this device?

Mike

[Johnmasters]

Now, how would a player apply this device?

Mike

The other thread referring to Saconni is the one to read. It seems to be a device to detune the two middle strings, scordatura. It works quite well. It has two stops, the center hinge touching the tailpiece and also the chin-end touching the tailpiece. It can be tuned by adjusting the supports. I made these out of bass bow eyelets. The originals are wood.

The "vibrato machine" was a bit of a joke.

[Johnmasters]

Somewhere I've seen a chinrest mounted to (part of) the tailpiece to get the same effect....personally I wouldn't pursue it....guess the strings would snap at the bridge after a while. Only useful for whammying chords maybe...Hendrix has a lot to answer for (in the best possible sense of course )

I am not pursuing it. What I am trying to tell you is that STRADIVARI made the original. Since he is somewhat respected, I thought I would present my model of his. They are very close.

Pushing the tailpiece down will not do the trick of schordatura. (It is not a vibrato machine, that was a joke). The double lever is necessary to make it work. It pries the middle strings up from the outer ones.

[jezzupe]

The other thread referring to Saconni is the one to read. It seems to be a device to detune the two middle strings, scordatura. It works quite well. It has two stops, the center hinge touching the tailpiece and also the chin-end touching the tailpiece. It can be tuned by adjusting the supports. I made these out of bass bow eyelets. The originals are wood.

The "vibrato machine" was a bit of a joke.

Well John, if all else fails, it looks like you invented one hell of mouse trap call it "the cat n' the fiddle

[Johnmasters]

Well John, if all else fails, it looks like you invented one hell of mouse trap call it "the cat n' the fiddle

I did not invent it.

Do you know Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle ?" My brother was his cellist for that one. They were together 3 years.