arglebargle Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 The third spot for a lot of Stainer copies to show up is Florence, with the Carcassis, for whatever reason. One must always love and respect the Carcassi brothers, for whatever reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jezzupe Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jacob Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 The third spot for a lot of Stainer copies to show up is Florence, with the Carcassis, for whatever reason. As far as I know the Carcassi brothers worked on a Stainer model exclusively, whereas their Florentine contemporary Gabrieli made another (Italian?) model as well, apart from a Stainer one. In places such as those you mentioned, I wonder what was the model being "copied" - was it really specifically Stainer, or was it a generic Tyrolean type? I can't help but think that many makers (especially those hordes of obscure Bohemians) who supposedly copied Stainer might not even have been aware of his existence, never mind having seen one of his instruments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stradofear Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 \was it really specifically Stainer, or was it a generic Tyrolean type? I can't help but think that many makers (especially those hordes of obscure Bohemians) who supposedly copied Stainer might not even have been aware of his existence, never mind having seen one of his instruments. Strictly speaking, that's probably correct. There's a tendency in the fiddle business to, whenever possible, upgrade something, if only by attaching it to a higher quality model as one might want to do in this instance. It sounds a lot better than "A Montagnana copy of an unknown tyrolian violin of no particular quality", doesn't it? :-) Still, in many cases (Montagnana, really, for instance) the model is definitely Stainer-derived. There's a Stainer model Goffriller here in Chicago that's jaw-dropping gorgous, and flagrantly Stainerish. Tecchlers, not so much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Carlson Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 To me the earlier one seems more like Amati influence than Stainer, especially when you have one in your hands. Hi Stradofear, Which do you mean as earlier? The more red-orange violin is 1744 and the browner one is 1747. I think the red-orange one is in Doring. I have both in my hands regularly and I get a different impression but a fine Stainer and a fine Amati have similarities. To me the soundholes on the brown one are particularly wide set at the upper eyes and it has a much higher and fuller arching than the other. Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Carlson Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Amazing difference in the F holes with only ~3 years separation between the 2 examples. Did he continue to flute the F holes at later times? Mostly not at all or only imperceptibly until we get to Turin and he starts again when Count Cozio di Salabue trys to talk him into immitating Stradivari. Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bruce Carlson Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Did they use inside moulds like the Cremonese? And would their making process be similar? They did use inside moulds but vary in construction details and aesthetics. Bruce Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jacob Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 It sounds a lot better than "A Montagnana copy of an unknown tyrolian violin of no particular quality", doesn't it? :-) LOL - well, I was actually thinking of a line that that might go something like: Albani-Keiser-Gofriller-Montagnana, rather than Stainer-Montagnana. But I accept your assurance about the Stainer derivation - after all, you've seen the instruments you cite, whereas I haven't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiingfiddler Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things. There are two memoirs by former students of Heifetz. In one of them, the author notes that in addition to his famous del Gesu, Heifetz also had a Tononi and a Seraphin. Neither the Seraphin nor the Tononi is, of course, a Stainer, but can show strong Stainer influences, as noted in this thread. What might Heifetz have used the Seraphin or Tononi for? He enjoyed playing chamber music in private settings. That would be a good venue for a Stainer inspired instrument. So, while I don't know for sure, maybe that's where Heifetz used the Seraphin or Tononi. That kind of setting -- living rooms -- is probably where most of us amateurs do our playing. I wonder if we amateurs wouldn't be happier with Stainer/Amati models, with their pleasant tone at close range and easy response, than with Strad and del Gesu models that when used by a capable, aggressive soloist will carry over an orchestra and fill a large hall. It reminds me of people who need to buy exotic 200 mph cars, when the speed limit is 75 (in the USA anyway). There's clearly a difference between the thrill of ownership and sensible use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Doug Marples Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things. I think I remember reading that the inventory of possessions of J.S. Bach at the time of his death included a Stainer violin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jacob Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I think I remember reading that the inventory of possessions of J.S. Bach at the time of his death included a Stainer violin. Mozart's father recommended to him to get a Stainer. For the music, tonal aesthetics and technical requirements of Leopold Mozart and J S Bach, the choice of a Stainer was a no-brainer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torbjörn Zethelius Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why did Stainer die poor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Tucker Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why did Stainer die poor? For the same reason Van Gogh died poor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janito Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 For the same reason Van Gogh died poor? Lost his hearing?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Burgess Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Lost his hearing?? So did Beethoven. Different reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
martina hawe Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Why did Stainer die poor? Hi Stainer was prosecuted being accused of heresy. A lutheran bible as well as writings against the catholic church were found in his house. After having been taken to court more than once he was imprisoned for a while. When he was released he still had requests for his instruments, 1670 big orders from Meran, Salzburg and Munich keeping him busy for a whol year. Nevertheless his financial situation wasn´t the best and he also had mental problems that at times made him unable to work... That´s what I recall having read about Stainer in Rudolf Hopfner´s catalogue which was made for the Stainer exhibition at Schloss Ambras few years ago Martina Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Torbjörn Zethelius Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I guess that violins weren't as highly valued as they are today? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oded Kishony Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 Stainer was prosecuted being accused of heresy.My opinion of him just doubled Quote Link to post Share on other sites
STRAD~STYLE Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 So did Beethoven. Different reasons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MANFIO Posted June 1, 2010 Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 A quite very fine violinist I know (a member here also) described a Stainer he played as a concert instrument, with a big sound. As far as Stainer's Cremonese training, I found it strange that in the Tenor Viola poster recently published by THE STRAD the upper margin or the lower f holes eyes are not aligned with the lower purfling line of the C bouts, a typical and almost allways present feature in Cremonese instruments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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