The adventuresome scholar Roger Hargrave

[arglebargle]

The third spot for a lot of Stainer copies to show up is Florence, with the Carcassis, for whatever reason.

One must always love and respect the Carcassi brothers, for whatever reason.

[jezzupe]

Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things.

[Jacob]

The third spot for a lot of Stainer copies to show up is Florence, with the Carcassis, for whatever reason.

As far as I know the Carcassi brothers worked on a Stainer model exclusively, whereas their Florentine contemporary Gabrieli made another (Italian?) model as well, apart from a Stainer one.

In places such as those you mentioned, I wonder what was the model being "copied" - was it really specifically Stainer, or was it a generic Tyrolean type? I can't help but think that many makers (especially those hordes of obscure Bohemians) who supposedly copied Stainer might not even have been aware of his existence, never mind having seen one of his instruments.

[stradofear]

\was it really specifically Stainer, or was it a generic Tyrolean type? I can't help but think that many makers (especially those hordes of obscure Bohemians) who supposedly copied Stainer might not even have been aware of his existence, never mind having seen one of his instruments.

Strictly speaking, that's probably correct. There's a tendency in the fiddle business to, whenever possible, upgrade something, if only by attaching it to a higher quality model as one might want to do in this instance. It sounds a lot better than "A Montagnana copy of an unknown tyrolian violin of no particular quality", doesn't it? :-) Still, in many cases (Montagnana, really, for instance) the model is definitely Stainer-derived. There's a Stainer model Goffriller here in Chicago that's jaw-dropping gorgous, and flagrantly Stainerish. Tecchlers, not so much.

[Bruce Carlson]

To me the earlier one seems more like Amati influence than Stainer, especially when you have one in your hands.

Hi Stradofear,

Which do you mean as earlier? The more red-orange violin is 1744 and the browner one is 1747. I think the red-orange one is in Doring.

I have both in my hands regularly and I get a different impression but a fine Stainer and a fine Amati have similarities.

To me the soundholes on the brown one are particularly wide set at the upper eyes and it has a much higher and fuller arching than the other.

Bruce

[Bruce Carlson]

Amazing difference in the F holes with only ~3 years separation between the 2 examples.

Did he continue to flute the F holes at later times?

Mostly not at all or only imperceptibly until we get to Turin and he starts again when Count Cozio di Salabue trys to talk him into immitating Stradivari.

Bruce

[Bruce Carlson]

Did they use inside moulds like the Cremonese? And would their making process be similar?

They did use inside moulds but vary in construction details and aesthetics.

Bruce

[Jacob]

It sounds a lot better than "A Montagnana copy of an unknown tyrolian violin of no particular quality", doesn't it? :-)

LOL - well, I was actually thinking of a line that that might go something like: Albani-Keiser-Gofriller-Montagnana, rather than Stainer-Montagnana.

But I accept your assurance about the Stainer derivation - after all, you've seen the instruments you cite, whereas I haven't.

[skiingfiddler]

Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things.

There are two memoirs by former students of Heifetz. In one of them, the author notes that in addition to his famous del Gesu, Heifetz also had a Tononi and a Seraphin. Neither the Seraphin nor the Tononi is, of course, a Stainer, but can show strong Stainer influences, as noted in this thread.

What might Heifetz have used the Seraphin or Tononi for? He enjoyed playing chamber music in private settings. That would be a good venue for a Stainer inspired instrument. So, while I don't know for sure, maybe that's where Heifetz used the Seraphin or Tononi.

That kind of setting -- living rooms -- is probably where most of us amateurs do our playing. I wonder if we amateurs wouldn't be happier with Stainer/Amati models, with their pleasant tone at close range and easy response, than with Strad and del Gesu models that when used by a capable, aggressive soloist will carry over an orchestra and fill a large hall.

It reminds me of people who need to buy exotic 200 mph cars, when the speed limit is 75 (in the USA anyway). There's clearly a difference between the thrill of ownership and sensible use.

[Doug Marples]

Are there any current well known soloist using Stainers? and have any famous players in the past used them? All the well known soloist that I can think of have always seemed to be playing Italian violins and or that is how it has been promoted in the "cliff notes" about such things.

I think I remember reading that the inventory of possessions of J.S. Bach at the time of his death included a Stainer violin.

[Jacob]

I think I remember reading that the inventory of possessions of J.S. Bach at the time of his death included a Stainer violin.

Mozart's father recommended to him to get a Stainer.

For the music, tonal aesthetics and technical requirements of Leopold Mozart and J S Bach, the choice of a Stainer was a no-brainer.

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Why did Stainer die poor?

[Craig Tucker]

Why did Stainer die poor?

For the same reason Van Gogh died poor?

[Janito]

For the same reason Van Gogh died poor?

Lost his hearing??

[David Burgess]

Lost his hearing??

So did Beethoven.

Different reasons.

[martina hawe]

Why did Stainer die poor?

Hi

Stainer was prosecuted being accused of heresy. A lutheran bible as well as writings against the catholic church were found in his house. After having been taken to court more than once he was imprisoned for a while.

When he was released he still had requests for his instruments, 1670 big orders from Meran, Salzburg and Munich keeping him busy for a whol year.

Nevertheless his financial situation wasn´t the best and he also had mental problems that at times made him unable to work...

That´s what I recall having read about Stainer in Rudolf Hopfner´s catalogue which was made for the Stainer exhibition at Schloss Ambras few years ago

Martina

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

I guess that violins weren't as highly valued as they are today?

[Oded Kishony]

Stainer was prosecuted being accused of heresy

.

My opinion of him just doubled

[STRAD~STYLE]

So did Beethoven.

Different reasons.

[MANFIO]

A quite very fine violinist I know (a member here also) described a Stainer he played as a concert instrument, with a big sound.

As far as Stainer's Cremonese training, I found it strange that in the Tenor Viola poster recently published by THE STRAD the upper margin or the lower f holes eyes are not aligned with the lower purfling line of the C bouts, a typical and almost allways present feature in Cremonese instruments.