Videoclips from the Ole Bull delGesu project

[Salve Håkedal]

Thank you, Anders!

I find this interesting, but it's a real pity that you did not bring your own recorder. It would have given you much better sound files to analyze, I think!

[STRAD~STYLE]

Was fun listening to all of them wish i could see good pics of each one

[Bernhard Ritschard]

Was fun listening to all of them wish i could see good pics of each one

Melving already posted the link to the photos taken by Roman Malamant:

http://www.landon-violins.com/olebull/index.html

Bernhard

[Janito]

Here are the average long time average spectra of the three instruments with the highest and lowest scores on each of the asessment parameters. =

Did you analyse the Landon played by Dimitri? (my earlier post)

If so, any insights as to why the G (and D) performed relatively poorly.

Was he trying to 'copy' the original Ole Bull sound? (Landon mentions uneven response in the lower strings as a generic comment on the consequence of contruction of the Ole Bull)

[Anders Buen]

Thank you, Anders!

I find this interesting, but it's a real pity that you did not bring your own recorder. It would have given you much better sound files to analyze, I think!

At least it would have been crecorded closer to my own seat. I did not know that we would have a listening test. And I think that in general these results are valid in spite of the compressed sound. Compressed sound is working on the files above some 16,5kHz while all the information below that is included. When we look at differences as we do here, it does not matter how bad or good the recordings and equipment are. And the information at 17kHz and beyond is of limited importance.

I find the recordings sounding a bit different than what I experienced being present in the event. The mics are in a position closer to the fiddles than any of the listeners.

I know from listening experiments we did at Cambridge last september that the listening environment we had there probaly is working good for the purpose. In dead rooms there is larger problems in getting consitent data.

[Anders Buen]

Did you analyse the Landon played by Dimitri? (my earlier post)

If so, any insights as to why the G (and D) performed relatively poorly.

Was he trying to 'copy' the original Ole Bull sound? (Landon mentions uneven response in the lower strings as a generic comment on the consequence of contruction of the Ole Bull)

I do not know what he has been trying. But he received the highest scores of all.

Here is a comparison of the long time average spectra of the music played on Landons violin compared to the average. I think the fundamentals on the G and D should be stronger in general than the average of the instruments. There is however a little weaker output around the bridge/body hill there. Maybe that is what you hear?

I guess we would need to analyze single notes in order to see the differences clearer. But I will not dive into that now. I think I may have judged the instruments by some distinct notes myself, at least if they are working well on those, e.g. the "baam" on the mid G string, the fiddle is ok, at least there..

[NewNewbie]

By the way, it would have been nice to see my name mentioned on Christophe's website since I made all the photos at the exhibition... I am not connected to the exhibition in any way and I took the initiative of making the photos because I thought it would be pity not to have a record of these great instruments.

Let me say a big warm 'Thank You!' for doing this, as I was more interested in seeing the work than hearing it.

The Ole Bull is such a visually unique instrument that seeing makers tackle this challenge was for me a real treat.

If anyone wants to see how Zak Moen tackled this difficult task, I would point you in the direction of his blog.

apprenticeviolinmaker.blogspot.com

In the opening video Christophe Landon points out some of the challenges, such as wild corners and bold purfling as being the hurdles copiers have to overcome.

Perhaps someone with failing eyesight made the original, but I can assure you that it takes someone with very very keen eyesight to copy it!

Too bad the volcano stopped about half of the instruments from competing.

Thanks again for the visual record, and I do hope that you will be credited for your work!

Perhaps we should start a thread here with everyone voting for the best looking copy of the Ole Bull.

[NewNewbie]

Here are the average long time average spectra of the three instruments with the highest and lowest scores on each of the asessment parameters. I start with the summed scores and then each individual. They look somewhat similar. Some of the same violins are on these extremes for all parameters, but I haven't checked that in detail..

As I pointed out in the former tread there is a tendency for giving high scores on the other parameters if one is set high and vice versa.

Thanks for the great posts! There sure is not that much difference in the graphs of the 3 top ranked and 3 least ranked violins.

I say '3 least' because they were definitely not the 3 worst.

Most have the top scores with the first peak being higher, and the last downhill slope being lower.

I wonder if people got tired of hearing the same tune by #52 and that they tended to rank the later instruments lower?

I found it hard just listening to 10 instruments in a row on the videos.

Thanks to all those people who sat there for all 52 instruments. Are you happy that because of the volcano there was not over 100 to listen to?

[Anders Buen]

Thanks for the great posts! There sure is not that much difference in the graphs of the 3 top ranked and 3 least ranked violins.

I say '3 least' because they were definitely not the 3 worst.

Most have the top scores with the first peak being higher, and the last downhill slope being lower.

I wonder if people got tired of hearing the same tune by #52 and that they tended to rank the later instruments lower?

I found it hard just listening to 10 instruments in a row on the videos.

Thanks to all those people who sat there for all 52 instruments. Are you happy that because of the volcano there was not over 100 to listen to?

I think the scores tended to increase towards the end. Maybe the first ones were judged harder?

The differences seen between the 3 with highest and 3 with lowest scores is enough for it to be audible. I think we can make difference filters of it and do a test and see if the MNers agree on what is better. But now I'll off to a party. :-)

[Michael_Molnar]

Excellent thread. Thanks and congratulation to Michael and Melvin.

Mike

[Michael K.]

I believe this project has done a new step in the Violinworld. I guess this makes history if it gets the right puplicitiy. Christoph and all people who help him did a nice and hard job and I hope we do it again anytime. I like the "free of mind" idea, and nobody got a kick-out because of "cheating". (I swear I was dry of red-wine during the purfling job )

[zinomaniac]

Nice pictures...good soundclips...lots of publicity...when is the online auction?

[Mauricio]

Congratulations, Melvin and Michael!

Now, I find the published scores a little iffy.

zulu out

[1alpha]

Which number video is the Landon violin?

[Anders Buen]

Which number video is the Landon violin?

Video no 2 I think: the title reads "Violins 30 - 39 Ole Bull Project Oslo"

Christoph Landons violin is the first played in that movie.

[1alpha]

Video no 2 I think: the title reads "Violins 30 - 39 Ole Bull Project Oslo"

Christoph Landons violin is the first played in that movie.

Thanks.

Listened now. Landon's seemed to have a lot of resonance though I preferred the quality of sound of Melvin's.

After hearing 3 or 4 I find it difficult to judge. Probably easier to be present in the room.

The audience voted I presume after hearing each one?

The main issue with that is that the makers names were announced prior to each performance.

Surely anonymity would have been fairer?

[Anders Buen]

Thanks.

Listened now. Landon's seemed to have a lot of resonance though I preferred the quality of sound of Melvin's.

After hearing 3 or 4 I find it difficult to judge. Probably easier to be present in the room.

The audience voted I presume after hearing each one?

The main issue with that is that the makers names were announced prior to each performance.

Surely anonymity would have been fairer?

We voted while listening to each violin. There was not really any pause to utilize for putting down the scores between each.

Yes the test was definitevely not blind. I think that the violin that got the lowest scores might have suffered from that. It looked different from the other violins, orange in colour and with a flatter arch and very simple antiquing. I think the maker is quite young. Maybe also the "winner" benefited from the audience knowing which fiddle was played?

Yes anonymity would have been more fair and in the spirit of such tests as done by scientists. I guess we see a blend of marketing and sort of pseudo science here. Making the video, announcing each violin maker, is a sort of marketing and making publicity too. Maybe that is the most important aspect for them?

[Mauricio]

I'm with 1alpha here, if I could choose one violin for myself, I'd take Melvin's and run. 1alpha, I'm curious if it wasn't the first e-flat in the second passage of the Bruch that sealed your decision.

edited due to poor grammar.

[Janito]

We voted while listening to each violin. There was not really any pause to utilize for putting down the scores between each.

Anders,

At what point did Dimitri play this Bach on the Landon?

http://vimeo.com/11727296

He sounds tired.

[Michael K.]

From the Video clips I feel the nicest sound had Marcin Krupa and Hendrik Woldring. However we all know much is a subjective taste.

Making the video, announcing each violin maker, is a sort of marketing and making publicity too. Maybe that is the most important aspect for them?

I think this is not a sort of marketing.

An important aspect for me (and I guess for the most others) was to show personal interpretations in look and sound. Every Violin was made after a guideline but without follow rules and a judge as for a competition, and we should not take to much attention to the sound scores and how it was done. The videos and the exhibition for itself were great memorys for all and if anybody can use it as his own marketing - go ahead.

[MANFIO]

Wow, nice to listen to your violins Melving and Michael! Congrats! Congrats also to Chris Landon, it was a nice idea indeed!

[lvlagneto]

I judged the violins by watching the players face.

I agree that it's hard to listen to more than two or three before I lose track of how I feel.

Melvin, looks good... sounds good... nice job of making the instrument look old as per always!

[1alpha]

I'm with 1alpha here, if I could choose one violin for myself, I'd take Melvin's and run. 1alpha, I'm curious if it wasn't the first e-flat in the second passage of the Bruch that sealed your decision.

edited due to poor grammar.

The violinist has a very individual style, especially intonation and rhythm and the curious appogiaturas in the Bruch.

Hence I found it difficult to listen to all the instruments.

I have to confess I have already played Melvin's fiddle and the sound in real life is dark and creamy combined with that perfect feel when the bow pushes into the string. And due to the wood and construction it feels as light as a feather.

These qualities didn't really come across in the video.

[Anders Buen]

Anders,

At what point did Dimitri play this Bach on the Landon?

http://vimeo.com/11727296

He sounds tired.

About midway as the fiddle is no 30 and there are 52 of them played.

[Janito]

About midway as the fiddle is no 30 and there are 52 of them played.

I am trying to clear up some confusion.

The Landon appears to have been played twice, once when Christophe hands it to the violinist (clip #30), and a second time when the violinist says he is playing the Landon and the plays the whole Bach movement (followed by clapping) (my URL http://vimeo.com/11727296).

Just trying to sort out the relative timing because the second Bach sounds tired - that was the version I first heard when I commented on the Landon sound.