cleaning a violin

[notlwonk]

There is a current Ebay listing that describes a dirty surface on a soft varnish. What cleaning materials and or methods would be appropriate for something like this?

[lyndon]

this kinda thing is a real gamble, if this violin is so great why cant al use full size quality pics the little thumbnail prints show something that could be american who knows i would expect more from "the greatest maker of the boston school" where does he get that; Wemberg American maker book has nothing positive to say about the tone of him or his brother, however his brother ira was getting 50% more for his violins so go figure and then he say american violins will soon be regarded as Italians; utter rubbish however there is one really big warning sign and that is the ink of the date on the label its fresh dark black like it was done with magic marker last month not faded like you would expect for this age, my guess is if its strung up and playing go ahead and bid on it then decide if it sounds good enough for the price if not return it but don't get caught up in the idea its a famous american violin when it might be nothing of the sort, if genuine something like this could be worth 1-3000 if not maybe 500-1000(im just guessing sincerely zulu

[jonfrohnen]

Doesn't look that dirty to me

[notlwonk]

this kinda thing is a real gamble, if this violin is so great why cant al use full size quality pics the little thumbnail prints show something that could be american who knows i would expect more from "the greatest maker of the boston school" where does he get that; Wemberg American maker book has nothing positive to say about the tone of him or his brother, however his brother ira was getting 50% more for his violins so go figure and then he say american violins will soon be regarded as Italians; utter rubbish however there is one really big warning sign and that is the ink of the date on the label its fresh dark black like it was done with magic marker last month not faded like you would expect for this age, my guess is if its strung up and playing go ahead and bid on it then decide if it sounds good enough for the price if not return it but don't get caught up in the idea its a famous american violin when it might be nothing of the sort, if genuine something like this could be worth 1-3000 if not maybe 500-1000(im just guessing sincerely zulu

That doesn't answer my question.

[jonfrohnen]

I would start by seeing how far you get with a new soft cloth then maybe some hill polish/cleaner if you really need it.

[notlwonk]

I would start by seeing how far you get with a new soft cloth then maybe some hill polish/cleaner if you really need it.

What is hill polish, I'm not familiar with that?

[GlennYorkPA]

There is a current Ebay listing that describes a dirty surface on a soft varnish. What cleaning materials and or methods would be appropriate for something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Do you have a serious interest in purchasing this instrument or are you just trying to increase the price by giving it some exposure?

I can't think of any other reason for asking such a lame question.

Glenn

[jonfrohnen]

I didn't want to be rude but it is a pretty lame question :-| So to answer the question most honestly I will suggest a nice mix of All Surface Pledge and a nice mist of Rubbing alcohol. For spots that are reaaaally in need a little sand paper should do the trick.

[lyndon]

i think glens right about this, jon i hope your kidding, zulu out :)

[notlwonk]

I didn't want to be rude but it is a pretty lame question :-| So to answer the question most honestly I will suggest a nice mix of All Surface Pledge and a nice mist of Rubbing alcohol. For spots that are reaaaally in need a little sand paper should do the trick.

jonfrohnen

Thank you for taking me seriously.

It just seemed to me that if the seller was that concerned about ruinning the varnish that there might be some legitimate concerns about some of the older soft finishes used on violins. I'm new at fiddling and yeh, I'm going to ask silly/lame/duh questions, that's just me.

I am in the market for an older violin that looks and sounds good and that one could reasonably expect to increase in value and this is one of many that caught my eye and in an attempt not to get stuck with a problem piece I sought advice from people who have experience. And I'm certainly not trying to raise the price. ( sorry al.romeo but I'm on the other side of a potential sale )

I am aware that there is a possibility of getting something that's 'mismarked' or cobbled together etc etc. So I consider the sellers track record. I spend time reading the description and viewing the pictures and checking other sources. Believe me there are a bunch of violins that get ignored due to the seller giving a vague pictures or write up or unrealistic pricing. If there is enough of a descrepency with the actual piece (should I win it) and the description there are ways with in the Ebay/Paypal system to rectify the situation. (Something best left to someone else to deal with, to my way of thinking.) And I'm not in the market for 2K+++ instrument, so that limits the potential monetary lose if things aren't what they were supposed to be.

OK, OK, I'm done

[jonfrohnen]

Yes I was kidding about pledge and rubbing alcohol, don't dare do this! Stick to my first suggestion of a nice soft cloth and a little Hill cleaner/polish if you need it :-) Do a Google search for Hill Cleaner/Polish and you will see what I'm talking about.

[pahdah_hound]

I doubt Al Romeo has any involvement with the title post of this thread. I know him and he is an expert in violins but I don't think he follows Maestronet at all.. I wonder why I haven't seen this particular violin in person. I do agree with him that Asa White is among the premier makers of the Boston School, and I believe his best work has achieved $5000++ at good violin auctions. Along with JB Squier and OH Bryant, Asa Warren White is at the top of the Boston School. However, I understand his output varied substantially in quality with the later instruments generally the more desirable.

That said, I am not commenting on this particular violin or auction as I have not seen it and wouldn't try to determine authenticity by the photos. Al Romeo does know an Asa White violin when he sees one.

Regarding violin polish:

I have a small bottle of Saconni polish which works great. When there is heavy build up of rosin and dirt I use a tiny dab of auto polishing compound mixed with the Saconni violin polish and it cuts the rosin build up well and leaves a great hard shine without removing varnish.

"I am aware that there is a possibility of getting something that's 'mismarked' or cobbled together etc etc. So I consider the sellers track record. I spend time reading the description and viewing the pictures and checking other sources. Believe me there are a bunch of violins that get ignored due to the seller giving a vague pictures or write up or unrealistic pricing. If there is enough of a descrepency with the actual piece (should I win it) and the description there are ways with in the Ebay/Paypal system to rectify the situation. (Something best left to someone else to deal with, to my way of thinking.) And I'm not in the market for 2K+++ instrument, so that limits the potential monetary lose if things aren't what they were supposed to be."

Last point. There are several good eBay violin dealers who are members of this forum and provide full money back guarantees. Richietman, Ingbergers, are a couple as well as several others. Many members of this board have had dealings with these sellers and can provide 1st hand recommendations if you ask. There are also several threads in the archives where dealers are discussed.

Good luck!

Jesse

[GlennYorkPA]

I doubt Al Romeo has any involvement with the title post of this thread. I know him and he is an expert in violins but I don't think he follows Maestronet at all.. I wonder why I haven't seen this particular violin in person. I do agree with him that Asa White is among the premier makers of the Boston School, and I believe his best work has achieved $5000++ at good violin auctions. Along with JB Squier and OH Bryant, Asa Warren White is at the top of the Boston School. However, I understand his output varied substantially in quality with the later instruments generally the more desirable.

That said, I am not commenting on this particular violin or auction as I have not seen it and wouldn't try to determine authenticity by the photos. Al Romeo does know an Asa White violin when he sees one.

Regarding violin polish:

I have a small bottle of Saconni polish which works great. When there is heavy build up of rosin and dirt I use a tiny dab of auto polishing compound mixed with the Saconni violin polish and it cuts the rosin build up well and leaves a great hard shine without removing varnish.

"I am aware that there is a possibility of getting something that's 'mismarked' or cobbled together etc etc. So I consider the sellers track record. I spend time reading the description and viewing the pictures and checking other sources. Believe me there are a bunch of violins that get ignored due to the seller giving a vague pictures or write up or unrealistic pricing. If there is enough of a descrepency with the actual piece (should I win it) and the description there are ways with in the Ebay/Paypal system to rectify the situation. (Something best left to someone else to deal with, to my way of thinking.) And I'm not in the market for 2K+++ instrument, so that limits the potential monetary lose if things aren't what they were supposed to be."

Last point. There are several good eBay violin dealers who are members of this forum and provide full money back guarantees. Richietman, Ingbergers, are a couple as well as several others. Many members of this board have had dealings with these sellers and can provide 1st hand recommendations if you ask. There are also several threads in the archives where dealers are discussed.

Good luck!

Jesse

You are very gracious, as always, Jesse.

I resisted responding to Lyndon Taylor's gratuitous trashing of a distinguished collector and connoisseur about whom he obviously knows nothing.

That unwarranted attack coupled with implicit self agrandizement should be left to zulu, his alter ego.

Glenn

[cheapjack]

There is a current Ebay listing that describes a dirty surface on a soft varnish. What cleaning materials and or methods would be appropriate for something like this?

xylol

[Fellow]

xylol

+++++++++++

Xylene (in hardware store) will do the job. To clean rosin dust, rub it.

[lyndon]

if were going to reccomend xylene with no warnings may i suggest dynamite for blowing the dirt off the violin sincerely lyndon padah hound your violins look just as suspicious as this one so i dont know what your reccomendation means, same with ritchietman and especially mariam imo :)

[GlennYorkPA]

if were going to reccomend xylene with no warnings may i suggest dynamite for blowing the dirt off the violin sincerely lyndon padah hound your violins look just as suspicious as this one so i dont know what your reccomendation means, same with ritchietman and especially mariam imo :)

So you are the same, rude idiot under your real name.

Whatever convinced you that attacking others in public would enhance your own prestige?

One does business with likeable people. You have just eliminated yourself from that list.

Glenn

[lyndon]

xylol is very dangerous if inhaled, carcinegenic, and will strip about 30% of the varnishes you try it on, the dynamite, do i have say it, that was a joke. as to distrusting big name overpriced dealers on ebay, whats rude about that, what are these guys, gods. ive seen very suspicious fake looking labels from almost all these top sellers, somethings not right about these guys i mean i saw padah hound with whole line of bs description selling a cheap german stainer circa 1920 for well over 1000usd, thats highway robbery, what service is that doing to the musician, i wouldnt sell something like that for more than $500. plus 200 yr old violins with 'absolutely genuine labels' except the paper is so new its its still white, and the ink jet black, dishonest or just deluded i can't tell, zulu out because this is a rant

[zefir68]

While you might be a complete ass at times, you can certainly cut through a lot of toro droppings posted by some people here.

[Brad Dorsey]

....i saw padah hound with whole line of bs description selling a cheap german stainer circa 1920 for well over 1000usd, thats highway robbery....

Admittedly, pahdah_hound's descriptions are a bit over the top at times. I would agree with your assessment of him if it were not for two things:

1. His auctions have great pictures, so bidders can see exactly what they're bidding on.

2. He scrupulously honors his no-questions-asked return policy, so unhappy buyers can always get their money back.

Your conception of highway robbery is a bit odd if it includes selling violins to willing buyers at prices set by the buyers themselves.

[Fellow]

if were going to reccomend xylene with no warnings may i suggest dynamite for blowing the dirt off the violin sincerely lyndon padah hound your violins look just as suspicious as this one so i dont know what your reccomendation means, same with ritchietman and especially mariam imo :)

++++++++++

All chemical have some degree of damage to the varnish. Some takes out all varnish which you don't want some takes out less.

No one would suggest use chemical inside an enclosed air-tighted area. Just common sense. Rosin dust is hard to get rid of.

What do you use? Dynamite won't work for my violins. You think I don't know that

[welshman]

Back to the original question - I would suggest either DL or GOJO handcleaner (without pumice) as a gentle and sfe cleaner for surface dirt and rosin build up, Either one works well, GOJO seems to have a bit more ability to remove the rosin but both are slow acting so you can watch what is getting cleaned, i have yet to have a problem with varnish interaction. It will take loner with rosin like Pops Bass rosin but with ssome elbow grease and paper towels it will clean the surface. The added benefit is that it is nice for the skin and healty, nothing nasty like Xylene. You can find a year's supply at the local auto parts store for under $3.

Reese

[lyndon]

brad if padah wants to keep his great reputation, he shouldn't use it to oversell cheap factory junk like the stainer; the buyer thinks hes getting padah hound quality but may be in for an unpleasant surprise especially if he takes it to the local violin shop for an appraisal, selling something for twice what its worth is not an accomplishment in my book, its a form of dishonesty. if a blind man walks up to you and asks for change for a twenty but hands you a 50 by mistake do you give him two fives and a ten, i don't think so. thats why i, zulumusic1, only use buy it now, set the price well below the appraised value, use world renowned appraisers and dont let myself get carried away with what i think it is or want it to be, one of the wisest things you can do in this buisness is recognize youre limitations and i am no expert, lyndon out :)

[pahdah_hound]

brad if padah wants to keep his great reputation, he shouldn't use it to oversell cheap factory junk like the stainer; the buyer thinks hes getting padah hound quality but may be in for an unpleasant surprise especially if he takes it to the local violin shop for an appraisal, selling something for twice what its worth is not an accomplishment in my book, its a form of dishonesty. if a blind man walks up to you and asks for change for a twenty but hands you a 50 by mistake do you give him two fives and a ten, i don't think so. thats why i, zulumusic1, only use buy it now, set the price well below the appraised value, use world renowned appraisers and dont let myself get carried away with what i think it is or want it to be, one of the wisest things you can do in this buisness is recognize youre limitations and i am no expert, lyndon out :)

I don't know what I ever did to you Lyndon, but your attack on me is out of line. I buy the best violins I can find in a variety of price ranges and sell them to the highest bidder on eBay without a reserve. I usually make something but sometimes I lose. Unlike any other auction venue I know of, the customer has a generous period to evaluate their purchase and return it for a full refund if they so desire. I take great pains to disclose all defects and condition issues I can find and take large clear photos. I have violins that sell for $500 and violins that sell for $10,000. I do not get appraisals, consult experts, nor do I suggest the "right" price that should be paid. A buyer can choose to bid whatever price they want to pay, and if they made a mistake, they can return it. And, when I make an attribution, it is one I will stand behind, guarantee, and back up with a refund offer. What is unfair about that????? The reason my violins bring a good price is that customers are comfortable dealing with me and trust my descriptions. I have sold over well over 1000 old violins on eBay in the past 9 years without a single case opened against me and maintain perfect feedback.

If you were to take any violin to 5 experts for appraisal you would get 5 different prices. Are you sure that your prices are the "correct"ones? Are "my prices" (which I do not set) too high? How do you know? You are not an expert according to your own admission.

And, it might serve you well to get your facts straight. Here is a link to the Stainer violin auction in question. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MESOX:IT The price of $560 is much closer to your $500 "right price" than the $1000 that you assert that I sold it for. I took it in trade on an Italian violin and allowed $1875 for it. It is a big loser for me. You question my credibility and then spout half truths and slander like they were going out of style. Get your act together, grow up and filter your comments before you post them. I don't believe that your rants will attract many supporters.

If I am incorrect here, I welcome anyone to straighten me out.

Jesse

[lyndon]

pardon my memory if it was defective. i thought the violin was over 900 with 1 hr to go when i looked at it, as i remember it, my mistake, the problem is youre doing your own appraisals and youre not qualified neither am i, its not the same you dont repair violins you don't pour youre whole life into restoring a violin then selling it, you seem to think every violin is great, and evidently you are being duped by sellers into buying fake label violins then selling them thinking they are real; lets assume you are doing this honestly, 96% of labels are fake. ive seen about 6 of your offerings lately and two or three of them had blatantly obvious fake labels; white paper, fresh black ink for the year numerals, and you were proudly swaring 'this is a genuine label', not as i would say;, this label looks old or the label looks like it could be real and matches the violin or this violin has been expertly appraised and the label deemed genuine. but you do nothing more than' i think this label is real' and heres the leap' so it is genuine'

your dead wrong about youre stainer being better than the boat arching older ones; the exact opposite; the boat arching ones are the ones in demand by country fiddlers and worth up to 1200, your one is the lowest of the stainers, because they made no attempt at a copy no different than a stradivari made in germany i bet you wouldnt get caught giving such a glowing description to a generic strad, but thats the equivalent of what you did here, correct me if im wrong but to appearances it seems youre all about the buck, i suggest you form an alliance with a qualified expert appraiser, stick to the facts, and try to listen to each violin individually to give a patently different assesment of the tone for each instrument, i hate to say it but the person most guilty of copying padah hound descriptions is padah hound himself i like you jesse your success inspires us all to do better but your a capatilist pure and simple, not me,zulu :)