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Fellow

Professional Violins?

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Hi all,

I have never heard anyone said he or she was trying to build a student violin.

The very first violin was professional. Second one must be better, so another professional.

When are they starting to build student violins? :)

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Da Salo and Magginni made some good instruments originally used for street music.

Testore and Ballestrieri sometimes look rough.

So it depends what you call 'student grade.'

These days you can get a hand made fiddle with a case and a usebale bow, for $1000

So I suppose that's student grade, according to price.

Some students deserve much better quality fiddles, so it's all relative.

In Germany I bellieve it's hard to work as a maker without pro credentials and training etc.

The term professional is often debated on these websites, its a pity but inevitable when there's not always a governing body or qualification given to prove a point.

In any case, I like the way Testore's sound.

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In Germany I bellieve it's hard to work as a maker without pro credentials and training etc.

The term professional is often debated on these websites, its a pity but inevitable when there's not always a governing body or qualification given to prove a point.

I may be wrong but I think you cannot make violins for the purpose of selling without the earned title in Germany.

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Speaking of grades: There have been and are a number of shops that have produced different levels of instruments... some for students and some for pros. Vuillaume's shop made "Vuillaume" instruments, St Cecile instruments, and three grades of "Stentor" instruments (I, II, & III). The Roth shop made many grades. W. H. Lee has their shop models and a range of makers allowing them to serve students with student instruments, and professionals with professional instruments.

Speaking of the makers themselves: Violin making students who attend school make a number of "student instruments" before graduation.

Past this, I agree with John's Confuscian paraphrase.

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As Ben says, it's all relative. A "professional" violin, in the sense of one which is suitable for use by a professional player, could come from a factory. Plenty of traditional fiddlers perform on shop or factory instruments. Even a classical music performer might find an excellent quality violin from a factory (lucky chance?). In the end it is the sound and playability that count and they could be excellent in a violin of humble origins.

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I've always wondered why so many instruments have the "CONSERVANCY" or similar designation engraved on them- it seems that it has come to mean "junk". Has that always been the case, and if so, why would a shop ever have put such a designation on an instrument? Or, at one time, was that considered to be a higher level of quality (than it is now)?

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I imagine all beginner violin makers would like to make what might be called a professional violin

on their first attempt. In my case, it looked, and sounded, like a bottom of the line student violin.

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...In Germany I bellieve it's hard to work as a maker without pro credentials and training etc.

The term professional is often debated on these websites, its a pity but inevitable when there's not always a governing body or qualification given to prove a point...

I may be wrong but I think you cannot make violins for the purpose of selling without the earned title in Germany.

FWIW, the law has been changed some years ago. As far as I know, anybody is allowed to open a "Geigenbau"-shop now. I think the title "Geigenbaumeister" is still protected and may only be used by those who have passed the "Meisterprüfung". Martina Hawe and Michael Köberling probably know more about this...

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FWIW, the law has been changed some years ago. As far as I know, anybody is allowed to open a "Geigenbau"-shop now. I think the title "Geigenbaumeister" is still protected and may only be used by those who have passed the "Meisterprüfung". Martina Hawe and Michael Köberling probably know more about this...

hi

just stumbled across this post and while Michael is not around I´ll try to answer the question.

Before the "recent" change of law (I believe it was in 2003) any craftsman needed to have the Meister- title to be able to legally open a business. It now is still required for certain crafts/professions. In general it concerns jobs where an untrained/unqualified persons work could do harm to customers. Like car mechanics, oh yes and hairdressers too but don´t think you´ll get a proper haircut from every Meisterhairdresser in this country :)

For luthiers the requirement to have Meistetitle to be able to run a shop has been lifted. However you still need to be a Meister if you want to train an apprentice.

Still not anybody can open a violin- workshop, you need to join the guild for that (not luthiers guild directly but general craftsman guild) and they check if you´ve been formally trained.

cheers

Martina

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hi

....., oh yes and hairdressers too but don´t think you´ll get a proper haircut from every Meisterhairdresser in this country :)

cheers

Martina

I was on the point of making a Fawltyesque "don't mention the war" type joke here, but realised it would probably go down like a Lead Zeppelin.

Anyway. I'm sure every Meisterhairdresser can do a cracking side parting and/or Hasselhoff perm.

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Like a Meistersinger making toy soldiers for Black Sabbath.

In my day you could go to hairdressing schools and get one for a fiver.

Luxury.

Oddly enough, I met a well trained German violinmaker living here in Ireland, yesterday.

She had been here for years, but I never knew about her existence until meeting in the health food shop!

Amazing eh.

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It shouldn't be too long before I build my first violin from scratch. I HOPE that it will be a good one. I'll be satisfied if it's simply a decent, playable one that doesn't sound like a cat caught in a wringer.

I would expect every successive instrument to be better than the one before in some ways.

Chris

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Before the "recent" change of law (I believe it was in 2003) any craftsman needed to have the Meister- title to be able to legally open a business. It now is still required for certain crafts/professions. For luthiers the requirement to have Meistetitle to be able to run a shop has been lifted. However you still need to be a Meister if you want to train an apprentice.

Still not anybody can open a violin- workshop, you need to join the guild for that (not luthiers guild directly but general craftsman guild) and they check if you´ve been formally trained.

cheers

Martina

Martina,

So the law was changed around 2003 but what are the repercussions of opening a shop and NOT joining the guild? This is an interesting process of change.

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Hi all,

I have never heard anyone said he or she was trying to build a student violin.

The very first violin was professional. Second one must be better, so another professional.

When are they starting to build student violins? :)

I understand that it is supposed to be a joke but anyways...

First violin cannot be student any more than professional. Even student violin has to have certain standarts. Actually its not the best idea to think of your first instrument as a "student" violin. These are usually done in factories or big workshops.

Even the most amateurish hobbyist can still call his violin handmade, and thats what people usually do... Big difference between professional and handmade...

But... I never seen people calling their instruments "HOMEmade" which often would be more precise term... :)

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i'm a little confused... was that

Confucius

Confucian

Confucianism

?

i'll research it.

VLR

I think the name was "Kung Fu Tse", perhaps Fellow can comment. Westerners could not get the tones right, and were used to polysylabic names.

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I think the name was "Kung Fu Tse", perhaps Fellow can comment. Westerners could not get the tones right, and were used to polysylabic names.

+++++++++++++++++

"Kung Fu Tse" = "Teacher Kung" or " Mr. Kung", well known scholar in ancient time of China.

( "Fu Tse" = "teacher", Kung, last name.)

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+++++++++++++++++

"Kung Fu Tse" = "Teacher Kung" or " Mr. Kung", well known scholar in ancient time of China.

( "Fu Tse" = "teacher", Kung, last name.)

Thanks, Fellow, I did not know there was a meaning for the name. Don't you think that "well-known-scholar" understates his role ? :)

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Thanks, Fellow, I did not know there was a meaning for the name. Don't you think that "well-known-scholar" understates his role ? :)

+++++++++++++

Yes, if someone (before 1910) in China said " it is in Mr.Kung's teaching (make peace) " that would be the end of any dispute.

(like magic) :)

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