For those who think ebay is only awful for fiddle fiddles

[bean_fidhleir]

http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ220534019403

[Mark Neukirchen]

It looks like an interesting collection to me. Just curious, why do you think it is awful?

Some of the pieces certainly are more valuable than others. I do think that they are doing the consignor a disservice by not piecing it up - at least into groups of separate categories.

Any predictions on the final sale price for the lot?

[Michael Richwine]

The art is completely fake, and keeps coming up for sale. The porcelain / pottery appears to be modern junk. The "gold" coins don't appear to be gold, but I have no expertise there. The appraisals aren't valid. I did estate auctions for a few years, and dealt in art and antiques for several, and I doubt that everything there would bring $1000 at a live auction. I don't see anything there that I would even accept for free.

[Ratcliffiddles]

Here is one of the "unique " items sold online elsewhere for $25:

unique watch

What?? no Strads??

[IBK]

Looks like a collection of "Antiques Road Show" rejects. I can't imagine anyone buying a lot like this sight unseen.

[Mark Neukirchen]

The art is completely fake, and keeps coming up for sale. The porcelain / pottery appears to be modern junk. The "gold" coins don't appear to be gold, but I have no expertise there. The appraisals aren't valid. I did estate auctions for a few years, and dealt in art and antiques for several, and I doubt that everything there would bring $1000 at a live auction. I don't see anything there that I would even accept for free.

With over two days to go and a current price of over $31,000, it looks like there are at least two people with deep pockets that disagree with you.

[MANFIO]

Why original works by Chagal and Turner would be sold on ebay?

[gowan]

With over two days to go and a current price of over $31,000, it looks like there are at least two people with deep pockets that disagree with you.

Could be shill bidding.

[Mark Neukirchen]

Could be shill bidding.

Maybe, but I would find it unlikely at this price level. The antique and art world are no different than the violin world. Very specific knowledge is often required to know the good from the bad. If just one of the fine art pieces is correct, the current bid would be peanuts. A bogus looking art appraisal will not distract the person with the knowledge. It's similar to watching the junk violin being auctioned off for $1000, and then realizing that there is a high-end bow hiding in the case.

[Michael Richwine]

Maybe, but I would find it unlikely at this price level. The antique and art world are no different than the violin world. Very specific knowledge is often required to know the good from the bad. If just one of the fine art pieces is correct, the current bid would be peanuts. A bogus looking art appraisal will not distract the person with the knowledge. It's similar to watching the junk violin being auctioned off for $1000, and then realizing that there is a high-end bow hiding in the case.

That's probably exactly what the lister wants you to think. It looks like shill bidding to me, too. It's all just too crude.

"Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" is a good guide in cases like this. I know from my experience as a collector, dealer, and auctioneer that the things I can identify are worthless. I already mentioned the pictures and porcelain, which don't take more than a glance, and you've seen the silly watch - I've waded through more of that junk than I care to think of - so it's a good bet that the rest is bogus, too.

Among the coins, I'm not an expert, but the most valuable things I see are the Vienna Philharmonic gold coins, and the 1/20th ounce Maple Leafs which only contain about three grams of gold. They might be the most valuable things shown.

The patterns are all wrong, big red flags. It's easy enough to get a genuine Chagall or Miro or Picasso authenticated, with or without provenance, and any of the major art auction houses would bring a lot more money for them with very little effort on the seller's part, yet the seller says he's letting them go so cheap because of lack of provenance.

The bidding pattern is wrong, too, IMHO. What I've usually seen with items like this, is that serious bidders stay out of the bidding until the last few minutes. High bids early on just attract more attention, and make it less likely to snag a bargain. The good stuff that I've bid on usually sees the bids go up by a factor of five to ten in the last hour of bidding. If that pattern holds true, we'd be likely to see a final price in the $200K to $400K range.

The appraisals are carefully worded with complete disclaimers to absolve the appraisers of any responsibility, and the valuations are waaaaay too far apart. All it takes is a look at a copy of the art price index or one of the other auction references to get a pretty good idea of value, another tipoff.

If there's anything in there other than the money that doesn't belong in a flea market or worse, I have no idea what it might be. I spent a lot of time buying and selling some pretty obscure stuff, and I think I have a decent eye. It looks completely bogus to me, but if someone actually has seen something in there worth over $40K, more power to them, but I wouldn't think of bidding on anything at that price based on what has been presented, and without seeing it up close and personal. This just isn't the way business is done, and this guy presents himself as being knowledgeable, so he should know how you go about selling stuff to get the best price.

BTW, I've been scammed a time or two, and it's been tried a lot more times after I wised up. This fits the pattern.

However, if you want to bid, don't let me stop you. It's your money.

[Mark Neukirchen]

That's probably exactly what the lister wants you to think. It looks like shill bidding to me, too. It's all just too crude.

"Falsus in ono, falsus in omnibus" is a good guide in cases like this. I know from my experience as a collector, dealer, and auctioneer that the things I can identify are worthless. I already mentioned the pictures and porcelain, which don't take more than a glance, and you've seen the silly watch - I've waded through more of that junk than I care to think of - so it's a good bet that the rest is bogus, too.

Among the coins, I'm not an expert, but the most valuable things I see are the Vienna Philharmonic gold coins, and the 1/20th ounce Maple Leafs which only contain about three grams of gold. They might be the most valuable things shown.

The patterns are all wrong, big red flags. It's easy enough to get a genuine Chagall or Miro or Picasso authenticated, with or without provenance, and any of the major art auction houses would bring a lot more money for them with very little effort on the seller's part, yet the seller says he's letting them go so cheap because of lack of provenance.

The bidding pattern is wrong, too, IMHO. What I've usually seen with items like this, is that serious bidders stay out of the bidding until the last few minutes. High bids early on just attract more attention, and make it less likely to snag a bargain. The good stuff that I've bid on usually sees the bids go up by a factor of five to ten in the last hour of bidding. If that pattern holds true, we'd be likely to see a final price in the $200K to $400K range.

The appraisals are carefully worded with complete disclaimers to absolve the appraisers of any responsibility, and the valuations are waaaaay too far apart. All it takes is a look at a copy of the art price index or one of the other auction references to get a pretty good idea of value, another tipoff.

If there's anything in there other than the money that doesn't belong in a flea market or worse, I have no idea what it might be. I spent a lot of time buying and selling some pretty obscure stuff, and I think I have a decent eye. It looks completely bogus to me, but if someone actually has seen something in there worth over $40K, more power to them, but I wouldn't think of bidding on anything at that price based on what has been presented, and without seeing it up close and personal. This just isn't the way business is done, and this guy presents himself as being knowledgeable, so he should know how you go about selling stuff to get the best price.

BTW, I've been scammed a time or two, and it's been tried a lot more times after I wised up. This fits the pattern.

However, if you want to bid, don't let me stop you. It's your money.

The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is currently going for $42,600 a bowl

It will be interesting to see the final sales price.

[MANFIO]

The looser will be the real winner....

[IBK]

Notice that several bidders have zero feedback.. It could be that someone is a bidder who has no intention of completing the transaction, just causing some mischief . I had that happen to me some years ago. They don't worry about negative feedback because the screen name is a very short lived account.

[Mark Neukirchen]

Notice that several bidders have zero feedback.. It could be that someone is a bidder who has no intention of completing the transaction, just causing some mischief . I had that happen to me some years ago. They don't worry about negative feedback because the screen name is a very short lived account.

It looks like the seller cancelled the high bidders $95,950 bid due to the zero feedback concern you mentioned. It will be interesting to see what kind of feedback is left for this sale.

[PhilipG]

http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ220534019403

Sorry, but I sense scam all the way. Maybe the gold coins are worth their weight in gold but if so, why sell them on eBay? They'll easily trade for what they're worth to any reputable dealer. And the paintings as well. My guess is the paintings are phonies and the rest of the items, with few exceptions, are modern copies. They're fakes if intentionally sold as real. As for the appraisers, here's one of the ones used. Here's their website:

http://www.hiddenfortune.com/

The other appraiser is similar as well, requiring only a picture sent to them (emailed) and a $40.00 fee. Then they send you an official appraisal. Probably by email as well which you can then print out on your home printer. Neat racket. Kind of like the old "Send us your last name and $10.00 and we'll send you your coat of arms".

I can't believe someone spent $42,000 on this auction. Remember, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

I'm glad I'm poor. I can't afford to make mistakes.

[PhilipG]

It looks like the seller cancelled the high bidders $95,950 bid due to the zero feedback concern you mentioned. It will be interesting to see what kind of feedback is left for this sale.

Is it possible that the seller canceled the bid for $95,000 to see what the next highest bid was? If this is true, then it's more likely an auction that had at least one shill bidder. I mean, $95,000 as a bid would have certainly overshadowed every other bid and would have then displayed what everyone else was bidding. Remember, when someone bids higher than the previous bidder, the previous bidder's highest amount is then displayed.

[Mark Neukirchen]

Sorry, but I sense scam all the way. Maybe the gold coins are worth their weight in gold but if so, why sell them on eBay? They'll easily trade for what they're worth to any reputable dealer. And the paintings as well. My guess is the paintings are phonies and the rest of the items, with few exceptions, are modern copies. They're fakes if intentionally sold as real. As for the appraisers, here's one of the ones used. Here's their website:

http://www.hiddenfortune.com/

The other appraiser is similar as well, requiring only a picture sent to them (emailed) and a $40.00 fee. Then they send you an official appraisal. Probably by email as well which you can then print out on your home printer. Neat racket. Kind of like the old "Send us your last name and $10.00 and we'll send you your coat of arms".

I can't believe someone spent $42,000 on this auction. Remember, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

I'm glad I'm poor. I can't afford to make mistakes.

You could be right. We may never know.

My thought is to yield to the people putting their cash on the line and assume that they know what they are doing and see something that I don't.

[IBK]

Sorry, but I sense scam all the way. Maybe the gold coins are worth their weight in gold but if so, why sell them on eBay? They'll easily trade for what they're worth to any reputable dealer. And the paintings as well. My guess is the paintings are phonies and the rest of the items, with few exceptions, are modern copies. They're fakes if intentionally sold as real. As for the appraisers, here's one of the ones used. Here's their website:

http://www.hiddenfortune.com/

The other appraiser is similar as well, requiring only a picture sent to them (emailed) and a $40.00 fee. Then they send you an official appraisal. Probably by email as well which you can then print out on your home printer. Neat racket. Kind of like the old "Send us your last name and $10.00 and we'll send you your coat of arms".

I can't believe someone spent $42,000 on this auction. Remember, if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

I'm glad I'm poor. I can't afford to make mistakes.

The hiddenfortune.com web site has a very interesting disclaimer whereby the consumer has no recourse in the event that a mistaken appraisal is given. This service also looks like a scam.

[PhilipG]

You could be right. We may never know.

My thought is to yield to the people putting their cash on the line and assume that they know what they are doing and see something that I don't.

I agree with you. But again, $42,000 is still a high enough amount that either someone knows exactly what they are/were doing, or is a fool. I can't imagine someone having no recourse but to leave bad feedback for a bad purchase that they made on their own, with no one to blame but themselves.

[PhilipG]

The hiddenfortune.com web site has a very interesting disclaimer whereby the consumer has no recourse in the event that a mistaken appraisal is given. This service also looks like a scam.

I did a Google search on "Email Appraisals". There are a lot of them out there. I doubt if any of them are going to pass up a quick $40.00 by telling you your item is a fake. Especially if they have their disclaimer protecting them.

[bean_fidhleir]

The high bidder was either a shill or sobered up in time: it's been re-listed. Current bid nominally $15.6K.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=220549536617

Mark, Nonado said it all, almost. If that junk actually came from an estate, then it was the estate of an ordinary non-wealthy person who collected "stuff", probably because he just liked the things but possibly because he was one of the ordinary, decent, hopeful people that quasi-scammers like the Franklin "Mint" prey on - people who think that because something is in a "numbered, limited edition with a certificate of authenticity" it will be worth something some day. (The same people Obama's campaign preyed on, really) (oh, and the name of the vendor "poor man's estate sales" might be significant)

[jollymarki]

The high bidder was either a shill or sobered up in time: it's been re-listed. Current bid nominally $15.6K.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=220549536617

Mark, Nonado said it all, almost. If that junk actually came from an estate, then it was the estate of an ordinary non-wealthy person who collected "stuff", probably because he just liked the things but possibly because he was one of the ordinary, decent, hopeful people that quasi-scammers like the Franklin "Mint" prey on - people who think that because something is in a "numbered, limited edition with a certificate of authenticity" it will be worth something some day. (The same people Obama's campaign preyed on, really) (oh, and the name of the vendor "poor man's estate sales" might be significant)

I think this is another list, the earlier list have a " triangular pocket watch " and a " terra cotta qin dynasty figure ".