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cembaliste

can pricing really go up because of a maker's popularity?

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i own a kouwenhoven '98 viola with a violin neck....and i bought it in toronto shar and no one knew who the maker was back then and thought it was just some noname viola

i recently contacted the maker by fluke through another violist friend of my teacher in nyc 11 years since its birth and he told me that his instruments nowaday sell for 18k easily if you know the right people. i bought it for a FRACTION of the price and it seemed almost too good to be true, even for a non-violist

as of date, no one seems to be able to give me an accurate pricing...i don't think going back to shar will help much...any thoughts or insights on how i can figure out how much it's worth? it has a rich clear tone for its size (under 16) and i'm super super curious now that i made contact with the maker himself, and it might inspire me to actually get proper lessons

any help would be appreciated, as i am not a real violist! :rolleyes:

thank you!

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i own a kouwenhoven '98 viola with a violin neck....and i bought it in toronto shar and no one knew who the maker was back then and thought it was just some noname viola

i recently contacted the maker by fluke through another violist friend of my teacher in nyc 11 years since its birth and he told me that his instruments nowaday sell for 18k easily if you know the right people. i bought it for a FRACTION of the price and it seemed almost too good to be true, even for a non-violist

as of date, no one seems to be able to give me an accurate pricing...i don't think going back to shar will help much...any thoughts or insights on how i can figure out how much it's worth? it has a rich clear tone for its size (under 16) and i'm super super curious now that i made contact with the maker himself, and it might inspire me to actually get proper lessons

any help would be appreciated, as i am not a real violist! :)

thank you!

Hi

Please post your photos in .jpg format using the upload feature.

Kouwenhoven was a student of Otto Erdesz who was also my teacher. If you know the maker why not ask him as to the sales prices of his instruments in recent sales?

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i own a kouwenhoven '98 viola with a violin neck....and i bought it in toronto shar and no one knew who the maker was back then and thought it was just some noname viola

i recently contacted the maker by fluke through another violist friend of my teacher in nyc 11 years since its birth and he told me that his instruments nowaday sell for 18k easily if you know the right people. i bought it for a FRACTION of the price and it seemed almost too good to be true, even for a non-violist

as of date, no one seems to be able to give me an accurate pricing...i don't think going back to shar will help much...any thoughts or insights on how i can figure out how much it's worth? it has a rich clear tone for its size (under 16) and i'm super super curious now that i made contact with the maker himself, and it might inspire me to actually get proper lessons

any help would be appreciated, as i am not a real violist! :)

thank you!

++++++++++++++++

Yes, it will go up in price if the instrument is good. However, it also has a limit that how far an instrument can go.

I know some 50 year old violins of a popular modern maker (no name please) selling for $30k

How much higher in price that it can go? The law of supply and demand will work not in its favor

PS. People tell you all sort of things, you have to play it and in our hand to feel it just to know.

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We need to be careful to not confuse Price and Value (IMHO)

It only takes one buyer to increase the Price, but it takes years and consensus to increase the Value.

Just think about the (perceived) difference between two violins by two good makers, but one maker is either Italian, or has an Italian sounding name... :)

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i own a kouwenhoven '98 viola with a violin neck....and i bought it in toronto shar and no one knew who the maker was back then and thought it was just some noname viola

i recently contacted the maker by fluke through another violist friend of my teacher in nyc 11 years since its birth and he told me that his instruments nowaday sell for 18k easily if you know the right people. i bought it for a FRACTION of the price and it seemed almost too good to be true, even for a non-violist

Has the maker actually seen the viola and authenticated in writing as one of his? Seems like that would be the first step.

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format of pictures are now .jpg :) j van k thinks that his violas sell for up to 18 these days, but it's been 10 years since he made mine. i recently took it to a shop near juilliard and the person in charge told me that she wasn't crazy about the violin neck and thought it decreased the value of it. she pegged it closer to 5. however, she wasn't terribly familiar with his instruments and she didn't really play it so i'm not sure what to think.

Hi

Please post your photos in .jpg format using the upload feature.

Kouwenhoven was a student of Otto Erdesz who was also my teacher. If you know the maker why not ask him as to the sales prices of his instruments in recent sales?

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hello, yes i have asked to meet with j van k but he is extremely busy at the moment and he is a couple of states away from me. he has asked to see it in person to verify its craft and worth. he is pretty sure it is one of his, made under his pseudonym of jonathan connover. but until then, i'm trying to seek advice from all string players!

Has the maker actually seen the viola and authenticated in writing as one of his? Seems like that would be the first step.

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hello, yes i have asked to meet with j van k but he is extremely busy at the moment and he is a couple of states away from me. he has asked to see it in person to verify its craft and worth. he is pretty sure it is one of his, made under his pseudonym of jonathan connover. but until then, i'm trying to seek advice from all string players!

Hi

Thanks for reposting the pics. The body is very nice, I am a little concerned about the neck however, it seems to be out of proportion to the body and might very well diminish its value. However if the comfort of the instrument is your main goal and you enjoy playing it, the value is of little importance. I am also puzzled as to why he used a pseudonym on his label.

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Hi

Thanks for reposting the pics. The body is very nice, I am a little concerned about the neck however, it seems to be out of proportion to the body and might very well diminish its value. However if the comfort of the instrument is your main goal and you enjoy playing it, the value is of little importance. I am also puzzled as to why he used a pseudonym on his label.

+++++++++++++++++

I agree with IBK completely. It makes me to change my mind of the thought that the viola would increase value without

replacing the neck. A viola should have a viola neck. If the owner is thinking of selling the viola, the first thing to do is to replace the violin neck.

A viola, if it has a bad bridge, is not as bad as having wrong size neck.

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Ok, so maybe I should try contacting JVK and get him to buy it back and replace the neck?

How else would I be able to fix the neck situation? I suppose it's great for young musicians with smaller hands who want a good viola sound

+++++++++++++++++

I agree with IBK completely. It makes me to change my mind of the thought that the viola would increase value without

replacing the neck. A viola should have a viola neck. If the owner is thinking of selling the viola, the first thing to do is to replace the violin neck.

A viola, if it has a bad bridge, is not as bad as having wrong size neck.

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apparantly, when he was starting to make violas or just even instruments in general, he wanted to go by another name that sounded more marketable and buyer-friendly

Hi

Thanks for reposting the pics. The body is very nice, I am a little concerned about the neck however, it seems to be out of proportion to the body and might very well diminish its value. However if the comfort of the instrument is your main goal and you enjoy playing it, the value is of little importance. I am also puzzled as to why he used a pseudonym on his label.

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Ok, so maybe I should try contacting JVK and get him to buy it back and replace the neck?

How else would I be able to fix the neck situation? I suppose it's great for young musicians with smaller hands who want a good viola sound

If you want to preserve the value and have it appreciate over the years you would need to have JVK replace the neck personally. In this way you have an instrument with authentic authorship. If you have someone else replace the neck you have a "composite" instrument. You would also need for him to replace the label with his own name.

Some makers don't consider this a priority work and you might have to wait for some time to have this accomplished and then again you would have to consider the expense.

If you love the instrument, leave it and enjoy playing it.

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... I suppose it's great for young musicians with smaller hands who want a good viola sound

Hi,

Viola players generally prefer a smaller neck regardless of the size of their hands. It's not unusual to see thinnish necks on new instruments as that's what players are asking for. I would see the neck as an asset rather than a liablilty.

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Hi,

Viola players generally prefer a smaller neck regardless of the size of their hands. It's not unusual to see thinnish necks on new instruments as that's what players are asking for. I would see the neck as an asset rather than a liablilty.

I think scribe is right. One leading Canadian viola teacher insists that all his students have violin size necks and at least one major Canadian luthier makes all his violas this way.

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I think scribe is right. One leading Canadian viola teacher insists that all his students have violin size necks and at least one major Canadian luthier makes all his violas this way.

++++++++++++++++

I can understand a shorter neck viola for smaller hands, but why they can not make the scroll different (not using a violin scroll) ?

:) Only explanation I can come up with that the luthier runs out of viola neck.

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that's what i TOTALLY thought too, because kathy rappaport helped me pick out this viola (i used to play for her viola students) and she tried it herself and loved it for what it was...thought it was a steal too

but then i brought it to a dealer in NYC who thought the violin neck was neither well-crafted nor desirable. she's a violin expert though i think

hmmmmm...

Hi,

Viola players generally prefer a smaller neck regardless of the size of their hands. It's not unusual to see thinnish necks on new instruments as that's what players are asking for. I would see the neck as an asset rather than a liablilty.

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i think i might just do that...

however much i adore this viola, though, i'm trying to sell it to buy a cembalo, which is more pressing to own!!! and costs upwards of 15k!

this is why i'm really trying to figure out what to do with this instrument and get the most for it

If you want to preserve the value and have it appreciate over the years you would need to have JVK replace the neck personally. In this way you have an instrument with authentic authorship. If you have someone else replace the neck you have a "composite" instrument. You would also need for him to replace the label with his own name.

Some makers don't consider this a priority work and you might have to wait for some time to have this accomplished and then again you would have to consider the expense.

If you love the instrument, leave it and enjoy playing it.

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