1956 Roth Violin

[RandyVP]

Hi,

We are in the process of finding a violin for our 12 year old daughter

who is moving up to full size and we are looking at an Ernest Heinrich

Roth, Beuberuth-Erlangen 1956, Reproduction of Antonius Stradivarius

Cremona 1700 (this is from the label inside). It also has a stamp in

the wood with the same name and the number 1612

After reading what ever information I could find on the Internet I'm

probably more confused than when I started. Seems any of the violins

made in the 20's are probably quite exceptional but the quality after

that can vary a great deal. Her teacher has a Roth made in the 70's

which has a beautiful sound and this violin seems to sound very nice

to me as well. It's just confusing to know what type or grade this

violin actually is (ie. student, professional, etc...). The local

dealer is asking $2800 (Canadian) it looks to be in very good

condition and my daughter seems to like it...her teacher will be

assessing it as well before we make our final decision. I'm just

curious if anyone out there could shed a little more light on that

model and year of Roth violin and if the price seems reasonable.

Thanks in advance,

Randy

[FiddleDoug]

Can we assume that your 12 yr old daughter is an extremely gifted and dedicated player? If not, you should consider buying a modern instrument for half that, and moving up to a more expensive, vintage instrument when she joins the youth symphony, or goes off to college to study music. Please remember that you'll also need a very nice bow to bring the best out of the instrument ($500-1000).

[RandyVP]

Can we assume that your 12 yr old daughter is an extremely gifted and dedicated player? If not, you should consider buying a modern instrument for half that, and moving up to a more expensive, vintage instrument when she joins the youth symphony, or goes off to college to study music. Please remember that you'll also need a very nice bow to bring the best out of the instrument ($500-1000).

You make a good point and it is something we've discussed. We had been looking at violins in the $1000-1500 price range but have been a little dissapointed (and her teacher too )...either they sound good but have other concerns such as having undergone major repairs or they just don't have the sound quality we're looking for. We inquired about Roth as her teacher owns one and the shop had one available...and overall it seems to be better sounding and is in very good condition. The price is not way out of our price range and I'm hoping that if we go with the Roth that either a) she will enjoy and play that violin for many many years or if she decides to upgrade at sometime the value of the Roth will still be there to apply against the new purchase. I guess my post is more or less to enquire about the quality and long term value of the Roth. She will be considering better bows as well but so far the most expensive she has to evaluate is ~$350.

p.s. She has been playing for about 5 or 6 years now and she does seem to have some talent (although I may be a little biased ;-)

Thanks for responding!

Randy.

[Brad Dorsey]

I'm just curious if anyone out there could shed a little more light on that model and year of Roth violin and if the price seems reasonable.

I think it's a reasonable price to pay a violin shop for a 1956 Roth in excellent condition, but that does not mean that it's the right violin for your daughter.

My advice to people in your situation is for your daughter to try as many different violins as she can. That way she will get an idea of what she likes, what she doesn't like, how much the sound of one violin differs from the sound of another and how much they cost. She will be a more informed consumer.

[Fellow]

Hi,

We are in the process of finding a violin for our 12 year old daughter

who is moving up to full size and we are looking at an Ernest Heinrich

Roth, Beuberuth-Erlangen 1956, Reproduction of Antonius Stradivarius

Cremona 1700 (this is from the label inside). It also has a stamp in

the wood with the same name and the number 1612

After reading what ever information I could find on the Internet I'm

probably more confused than when I started. Seems any of the violins

made in the 20's are probably quite exceptional but the quality after

that can vary a great deal. Her teacher has a Roth made in the 70's

which has a beautiful sound and this violin seems to sound very nice

to me as well. It's just confusing to know what type or grade this

violin actually is (ie. student, professional, etc...). The local

dealer is asking $2800 (Canadian) it looks to be in very good

condition and my daughter seems to like it...her teacher will be

assessing it as well before we make our final decision. I'm just

curious if anyone out there could shed a little more light on that

model and year of Roth violin and if the price seems reasonable.

Thanks in advance,

Randy

+++++++++++++++++

I have no idea what does it mean " a professional violin" ? It may be a convenient way that a violin shop uses it to say "top of the line"

Usually the top of line violins are made of better material, (better wood, better varnish, better workmanship) of course more expensive.

I have just opened a "student violin". It has everything what a "handmade" violin is supposed to have. It is not qualified to be "handmade".

I think the difference is that knowledge and cares that into making it defines thier names. In short, it is not easy to see. For example,

the rib is a bit too low, or the neck is not right. A "professional" will see it right away.

[skiingfiddler]

I think it's a reasonable price to pay a violin shop for a 1956 Roth in excellent condition, but that does not mean that it's the right violin for your daughter.

My advice to people in your situation is for your daughter to try as many different violins as she can. That way she will get an idea of what she likes, what she doesn't like, how much the sound of one violin differs from the sound of another and how much they cost. She will be a more informed consumer.

I agree with Brad's statements about price, given condition, and the need to try many different violins.

I used to have a Roth Strad model 1700, made in 1960, and the price you're quoting was the range that violin was in when I sold it to a dealer. It was a well made, very stable, and a fairly good sounding violin.

There's no substitute for taking your time and trying as many violins as you can. Give yourselves a few weeks, if not longer. See if you can take the fiddles out for home trial for at least 3 or 4 days.

Let your daughter's feelings be the deciding factor once your daughter, teacher, and you have narrowed the field to 2 or 3 instruments. As a 12 year old, she may choose one for as trivial a reason as varnish color, but she's the one that has to really like it to put in the time practicing.

Give some consideration to the reputation of the shop you're buying from. You'll want some after purchase service.

[RandyVP]

+++++++++++++++++

I have no idea what does it mean " a professional violin" ? It may be a convenient way that a violin shop uses it to say "top of the line"

Usually the top of line violins are made of better material, (better wood, better varnish, better workmanship) of course more expensive.

I have just opened a "student violin". It has everything what a "handmade" violin is supposed to have. It is not qualified to be "handmade".

I think the difference is that knowledge and cares that into making it defines thier names. In short, it is not easy to see. For example,

the rib is a bit too low, or the neck is not right.

I apologize if my terminology is not accurate...I just read on the Internet about different grades or qualities of violins made by Roth and I was trying to determine how the violin we are considering is rated or who the target buyer was when it was originally built.

[skiingfiddler]

I apologize if my terminology is not accurate...I just read on the Internet about different grades or qualities of violins made by Roth and I was trying to determine how the violin we are considering is rated or who the target buyer was when it was originally built.

As I remember from the dealer who sold me my 1960 Roth and as I remember from others' posts, the year is an indication of grade. The higher the year, the higher the grade. So a, say, 1726 Strad model Roth was supposedly a better grade than a 1700. I believe the 1700 was toward the bottom of the various gradings, but the bottom was pretty good.

I'd say my 1960 Roth was an advanced intermediate's violin, but each violin, even those of the same grade, are individual and can vary in tone and response. You have to evaluate each violin individually.

[Steve_W]

I don't know about the mid-50s Roth violins but understand that the violas are considered to be decent intermediate instruments; I have a '56 Roth viola with a similar label on long-term loan and it's nice; reasonably good sound, well-made but a little heavy. Would say it's not a professional instrument but a decent amateur one--a good quality factory instrument. Hope that helps.

[Fellow]

I apologize if my terminology is not accurate...I just read on the Internet about different grades or qualities of violins made by Roth and I was trying to determine how the violin we are considering is rated or who the target buyer was when it was originally built.

++++++++++++

Your terminology used in question is fine.

PS. Long time ago, I had a Roth ( low graded). Some Roths (top of the line , 1925?) are very good.

I have tried a few. Recently their prices have rised in prices. Roth violins have a wide range in quality.

General speaking I like Roths. Wish you good luck in finding whatever you have for your daugther.

[RandyVP]

thanks to all who replied...your information has been very helpful. Turns out her teacher found a bit of problem with the Roth violin (as well as the others we were demo'ing) so we are still in the hunt....fortunately she will go with us to the shop and help us in our quest. Much like the princess in search of her prince....it really seems you've got to handle a few frogs before you find that perfect violin (pun intended) :-)

Randy