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MingLoo

RESONANCE MODULATOR for violin, viola, cello and bass

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"... and don't leave the magnets in place for days... since if the varnish is soft..it could get distorted or impressed. "

So this is not something that should be considered a "permanent fix"? What are you suggesting- take the magnets off between uses?

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Sorry I'm not familiar with patent laws, but I'm confused, how is someone to know if they are infringing on your patent if it's a secret?

Oded

Not a secret at all... The product is there for all to see or buy and analyse.

The first stage of most patents is the application for "provisional patent" which is good for 1 year or until the process is either dropped or a 'nonprovisional" patent is applied for. The intent is that the cost of the provisional is significantly lower but still gives protection while the product can be tested and marketed and modified to ensure it is viable. If the inventor feels it is viable, then they apply for the more expensive non provisional which can take many months or even a year or more, all the while the idea is protected. Generally, you need to worry about infringing only if you sell a product that infringes on the patent... ie anything that uses the same principles of effect. During the patent pending stage, whether you are infringing becomes evident in looking at, buying, or testing the product yourself (or you can wait until the patent is issued). Many companies do not promote their patent for the very reason that a copier can develop a market then the patent holder goes for the profit. You may recall that Blackberry infringed on a patent and ended up paying $612 million as a settlement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTP,_Inc.

In my case, I do not intend to keep the patent under wraps once the non provisional patent is issued... and once it is, it can always be located thru a patent search on the USPTO site.

Hope this helps... Mat

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"... and don't leave the magnets in place for days... since if the varnish is soft..it could get distorted or impressed. "

So this is not something that should be considered a "permanent fix"? What are you suggesting- take the magnets off between uses?

I have found that in most cases you can leave the magnet in place for extended times, but if the varnish is relatively fresh or soft as some varnishes are naturally, the pressure of these magnets can leave a mark.... so you will need to judge each situation on its own. These magnets are quite powerful ... and need to be so that they will stay put and not "walk" with the vibrations of the instrument. I Have had it in place for a year on a Factory instrument with no effect. On another with my own varnish 2 weeks became suspect.

The fix is permanent only to the extent that the player will soon learn the effect of the Rezx at various placement points and can place it there whenever they wish. Each instrument will of course have different accoustic characteristics and hence the Rezx will have a different effect on different instruments even though the placement points may be similar.

Hope this helps!... Mat

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An honest observation, with no intent to offend:

Does anyone else find it ironic that MingLoo brought up a topic that has led to a discussion of somebody's product on this forum?

Does the creator/marketer/profiteer of this product have any obligation to bow out so as not to be perceived as pushing their product?

Again, I just found it funny.

But it's late and I should really be.......going........ :)

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these magnets are rare earth Neodymium magnets. Ordinary ones will not hold in place.

Ahaa... you are aware of course that those giant magnets used on car crushers are 'ordinary magnets'. Which is why i wondered...

... ie anything that uses the same principles of effect.

So basically anyone who uses magnets.

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An honest observation, with no intent to offend:

Does anyone else find it ironic that MingLoo brought up a topic that has led to a discussion of somebody's product on this forum?

Does the creator/marketer/profiteer of this product have any obligation to bow out so as not to be perceived as pushing their product?

Again, I just found it funny.

But it's late and I should really be.......going........ :)

argle... I hope others do not see this as marketing... I said so in my first post. After that I was responding to direct questions... and that I believe is appropriate. After all this is a new idea (not the magnet but the application) and if I can help others with their questions, then I am glad to do so. After all... every luthier that post pics of their work... and some of it magnificent... are marketing to some degree. I know that one luthier is not likely to buy another's violin, and so you can argue that they are not marketing. But then, having shown the Rezx, and knowing the ingenuity of the luthiers I sincerely doubt that any luthier will actually buy one! I do however appreciate the feed back (positive and negative) and that in turn helps me either develop the product or the image or whatever. Maybe someone here will actually benefit from the idea.... and that will have been worth the effort.

BTW, it is not the magnet technology or the materials that are being patented, but rather the application and method.

Here for example is a very simple item that uses common materials and was successful in recieving a patent.... I was surprised.

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=073236...View+first+page

Hope the link works... it is Patent #07323627

All the best... Mat

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A patent is only as strong as the effort expended enforcing it.

Magnets are available in any craft shop and in etherspace by the bucket. The local repairman buys a bunch and installs them for $2.57 + tax.

What next?

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Do you have a patent number?

Or a description of the patent?

~OK

Finally the Patent has been registered ... US Patent # 7678979 and here is the link:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?...p;RS=PN/7678979

to view the drawings (images) you may need to download a small program from the USPTO site

http://www.uspto.gov/patft/help/images.htm

As a side comment, for those who have other ideas and are thinking of patenting... It would have cost me in the order of $10,000 to have this patent process completed by a patent attorney. As it is, I was not about to expend that kind of cash, so as an imaginative and inventive person, like all luthiers, I managed the process myself and the total cost was less than $2000... and I had a whole lot of fun doing it.... I would be glad to help anyone with questions on the process.

Btw, to my surprise, there is more interest (so far) in the cello version than the one for violin.

Cheers, Mat

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If it makes money, hats off to them for finding a niche.

I add a lot of iron oxide to my varnish, this allows the magnet to stick. If I have time, I magnetize the entire instrument, the N pole being near the neck. N for north... N for neck... seems fitting.

Burkard,

I bet you will receive requests on how you do this. Please let us know is you do. :)

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As a side comment, for those who have other ideas and are thinking of patenting... It would have cost me in the order of $10,000 to have this patent process completed by a patent attorney. As it is, I was not about to expend that kind of cash, so as an imaginative and inventive person, like all luthiers, I managed the process myself and the total cost was less than $2000... and I had a whole lot of fun doing it.... I would be glad to help anyone with questions on the process.

Cheers, Mat

Mat, I have some questions if you don't mind.

Actually, I've been toying around with an idea lately, that I know would fly - big time. If such a product existed - I would buy and use one immediately as it would save me hours of effort and sweat every time I used it.

It has nothing to do with lutherie, but it it a "tool" (a power tool actually) that I am surprised that no one has made and marketed yet.

What about patenting an existing principal, but used in entirely new application - are there stipulations regarding that? I'm thinking that surely there are patents using magnets for a similar application - but having nothing to do with resonance or instruments, correct?

In patenting, can you patent an idea without building a prototype? If I could obtain a patent without a prototype, I know exactly which company (and how I would do it) I would sell the idea to.

Do you know?

Do you know where to get answers to questions like this, without having to wade through 15,000 page documents of legaleez?

In either case thanks for this generous post offering advice from your personal journey into the world of patenting. If nothing else I would be interested in a link showing where to start - for someone who is interested in bypassing the $10,000 patent lawyer route.

Again, Thanks!

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What is this thing, and does it have any value?

http://www.rezx.biz/

Hi,

I was not happy with the tone of my cello and it had a little bit of a buzz on the A string in the B position, my teacher suggested that I try the Rezx. I bought one and installed it in a matter seconds and was amazed at the range of tone change. It also cured the little bit of buzz. By moving the Rezx a very small distance it had significant impact on the sound. It was worth getting to just play with it and see what it could do.

Regards...Tony

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A small ball of modeling clay

should work for experimenting.

Just worry a a bit about the oil in the clay.

The idea is to change the frequency

of a plate resonance. The easiest

problem to see is the wolf. This sounds

like a great way to locate the place to

glue a weight on the inside.

My few experiments with clay seem to

show that if an added weight improves things

that locates a place that could use some carving.

A good instrument is not improved by any placement

of weights.

I have seen a magnetic thickness gauge using two magnets

inside and out, that estimates thickness by measuring

the force between the magnets.

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Mat, I have some questions if you don't mind.

Actually, I've been toying around with an idea lately, that I know would fly - big time. If such a product existed - I would buy and use one immediately as it would save me hours of effort and sweat every time I used it.

It has nothing to do with lutherie, but it it a "tool" (a power tool actually) that I am surprised that no one has made and marketed yet.

What about patenting an existing principal, but used in entirely new application - are there stipulations regarding that? I'm thinking that surely there are patents using magnets for a similar application - but having nothing to do with resonance or instruments, correct?

In patenting, can you patent an idea without building a prototype? If I could obtain a patent without a prototype, I know exactly which company (and how I would do it) I would sell the idea to.

Do you know?

Do you know where to get answers to questions like this, without having to wade through 15,000 page documents of legaleez?

In either case thanks for this generous post offering advice from your personal journey into the world of patenting. If nothing else I would be interested in a link showing where to start - for someone who is interested in bypassing the $10,000 patent lawyer route.

Again, Thanks!

CT... I agree the USPTO site is complex and full of lots of detail... but try this section.. and read the different links that are of interest

http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/index.jsp

Also, to make your life real easy, here is the Page for the USPTO inventors assistance Center and their phone number. They are very helpful and I must have called them dozens of time for clarification as the process unfolded.

http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/iac/index.jsp

There is absolutely no need to have a working prototype. The first step is to write up and provide the drawings for your idea and submit the appropriate paperwork for the “Provisional Patent” as well as the filing fee, which for me was less than $110 as it was classed as a small entity. Once it is approved (not likely to be declined) it will protect you for a year while you test the market and determine if you want to go further. Just find an existing similar patent and copy the format and wording and you will be OK. Do the drawings in the same style as all other patent. Within the year you will then need to apply for the Non Provisional Patent which is the final product but a more complex process…. But by then you will have sold your idea… much better than Powerball!

One final note... search the patent database with all the various words that you or anyone might call your invention... it may already be patented. I had invented a 4 person chess game... and after my prototype worked well, I searched and found a myriad of chess game variations as well as the exact copy of mine! You will spend considerable time here!! http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-bool.html

If you wish, and in case some of it may not be appropriate for this forum, feel free to email me re any questions or details mat@rezx.biz

Cheers, & Good luck!.. Mat

ps... The concern you may have is that the company you are trying to sell to might try to patent their own similar version at the same time... so your write up needs to be iron clad!

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Hi,

I was not happy with the tone of my cello and it had a little bit of a buzz on the A string in the B position, my teacher suggested that I try the Rezx. I bought one and installed it in a matter seconds and was amazed at the range of tone change. It also cured the little bit of buzz. By moving the Rezx a very small distance it had significant impact on the sound. It was worth getting to just play with it and see what it could do.

Regards...Tony

Thanks Tony... just what most people find. Cheers, Mat

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A small ball of modeling clay

should work for experimenting.

Just worry a a bit about the oil in the clay.

The idea is to change the frequency

of a plate resonance. The easiest

problem to see is the wolf. This sounds

like a great way to locate the place to

glue a weight on the inside.

My few experiments with clay seem to

show that if an added weight improves things

that locates a place that could use some carving.

A good instrument is not improved by any placement

of weights.

I have seen a magnetic thickness gauge using two magnets

inside and out, that estimates thickness by measuring

the force between the magnets.

Go... the problem that gluing in an equivalent weight to the inside is that sometimes solving a specific problem also creates a new problem somewhere else.... usually found later and then removal is a trip to the luthier $$ such as the Lupus Ex here... http://violins.ca/accessories/wolftone_eliminators.html

The magnetic thickness guage is called a Hacklinger guage http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Calipers...ness_Gauge.html

Cheers... Mat

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