Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

The dropship argument


MingLoo
 Share

Recommended Posts

MingLoo, I have always found the people on the Pegbox forum to be very sympathetic and compassionate when it comes to personal issues. If you were looking for some kind words and sympathy then perhaps you should have started with post #84 rather than post #1. I can assure you that if you had, then you would have had a much warmer reception.

I really think you are genuinely puzzled by the reaction you have received and you don't seem to understand why people (including me) have sided with the violin business that was at the centre of your original complaint. I'll try and make it clearer for you. You sell a product, you take the money and that's the end of it for you. Fine... that's your business model and you have every right to it.

Many of the members of this forum are the people who have to deal with your product for years to come. Anyone who has worked in a violin workshop will know the sinking feeling and the mental eye-rolling that comes when someone walks in the door and says: "My daughter has just started learning the violin and I bought this instrument on eBay/internet/Walmart/Aldi/whatever. She just had her first lesson and the teacher told me to come straight around to see you". Often there will be a nice little note in the case from the teacher that looks something like:

1. CHANGE STRINGS!!

2. Bridge too low

3. Soundpost??

4. Pegs keep slipping

5. Bump in middle of fingerboard

We are the people who have to decide if the violin is even worth the trouble. We are the people who have to explain to the parent that it will cost them $200 to have all that work done and if they'd bought it from us in the first place then they could have saved themselves some money. We are the people who have to explain that even if they do spend the money on it, we won't touch it as a trade-in when little Jane moves up to a half-size. We are the people who have to decide if little Jane is going to give up after 4 weeks (in which case it doesn't matter much) or if she is the next child prodigy who needs the best instrument possible. Sometimes we are the people who have to say to the parent: "Look, it's just not worth it. Accept the fact that you've just wasted $150"... (and that's not much fun). And we are the people who have to answer that nagging question that every parent asks... "How can people sell something that doesn't work?"

I'm not saying your instruments are bad, or not worth the money. But as someone who has to deal with this situation on a regular basis I hope you can understand why we get a little touchy about people who sell instruments, and then aren't around to handle all the difficult issues that come later.

Very nicely said, and I do understand. I've been in the music business for decades.

>> Many of the members of this forum are the people who have to deal with your product for years to come.

Are you operating on the assumption that the cheap violins are the only product I offer?? 98% of the violins, violas and cellos that I sell are those set up by hand at Core, in the $265.00 to $4,960.00 range (for violins - cellos and violas, more). Only a tiny percent are the $148 SV-175 violin and violas (no cellos!) and the low end GEWA violin and viola outfit. One has to offer these instruments, because some people cannot afford and/or will not purchase anything else. And I offer them with plenty of caveats; when prospective buyers contact me, I steer them to the Core.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 115
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

MingLoo,

I've been sitting back, watching this thread. I have a small business repairing, restoring, and selling instruments and bows. I don't do internet sales. (Although for certain items, I would consider it.) Every instrument that goes through my shop is personally inspected for proper set up, adjusted or repaired, and played (very limited talent here) by me. I take great pride in having clients come in to try out and compare instruments, and leave with something that I know is set up properly and suited to them. If you can make a living selling over the internet, more power to you. If a cheapo instrument comes to me in need of work, I'm usually glad to do the necessary repairs, when possible. There are lots of cheapo instruments out there with dyed wood fittings that are a pain to work on, but I do the best work possible under whatever budgetary restraints I get from my clients. I wouldn't consider buying most of these instruments for resale. There are often limits on the improvements that I can make, and the cost often exceeds the original cost of the instrument. I have a VSO warning page on my website to help people understand the pitfalls of internet purchases. If you set up any kind of luthier referral system on your website, make it clear that they are in no way associated with your business, and that they won't be doing any repairs or adjustments (warranty or not) for free. The instruments that you are selling from Howard Core are probably fine, and well set up, and don't really fall into the VSO category.

Condolences for the loss of your parents, and your cat. I've been through it also. I'm a cat lover, and can appreciate the bond.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MingLoo, I am so sorry about the loss of your parents and of your little cat. Both of my parents are gone, and I lost my old cat Bob last fall after having him for 14 years, so I know how you are feeling. Life is hard indeed.

FiddleDoug, that was a thoughtful, well-written post. Thank you for your perspective.

Mary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MingLoo, I am so sorry about the loss of your parents and of your little cat. Both of my parents are gone, and I lost my old cat Bob last fall after having him for 14 years, so I know how you are feeling. Life is hard indeed.

FiddleDoug, that was a thoughtful, well-written post. Thank you for your perspective.

Mary

:) :) :)B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:) :) :)B)

+++++++++++++++++++++

(Return to the business aspect of the post.)

Why there is a problem?

If I sell an outfit to the parent of a child learner, I would inclose a note in the outfit reminding

the need of periodic check-ups and cares of a qualified luthier of stringed instruements.

The responsility is then transfered to the parent. Why the seller has any responsiblity after the sale ( except

the first few days) ? Mingloo is a teacher. She knows the outfit is Okay when it is delivered. Right? (why there is a problem? )

PS. Many years ago, I brought a student violin to my local shop for service, they charged me quite a lot.

I did not understand why it was so much. Later, I knew they shop only sells

and serves middle or higher level instruments. After afew more time, they told me the violin neck was not right and explained it

to me. I was happy that they corrected the problem for my violin. You pay more you get more, that is the way it goes.

It works like an expensive violin. So one day I asked them if they wanted my violin. No, they said, a student violin is student violin

no matter how much money you have put in it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only a tiny percent are the $148 SV-175 violin and violas (no cellos!) and the low end GEWA violin and viola outfit. One has to offer these instruments, because some people cannot afford and/or will not purchase anything else. And I offer them with plenty of caveats; when prospective buyers contact me, I steer them to the Core.

Hello,

I have been more intrigued by the psychology of all this than by the issues of business practice.

You seem surprised at many of the reactions you have received, and (at least in my opinion) have exaggerated their tone in your many responses. Someone reading only your comments would probably believe that you had been brutalized here.

I suspect that (at least) part of the "take your finger out of my eye" reactions you are getting are caused by your tendency to describe your business practices without any expression of personal responsibility, as you have just above.

Even the grammar is interesting.

You say "One has to offer these instruments."

But quite obviously some dealers choose to offer 'em, and others choose not to. If "One had to offer them" there would be no one here to disagree with you.

The choice is completely yours, from a business perspective or otherwise, and accepting some responsibility for that might provide you a more pleasant ride...

All the best,

A.C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OT OT OT OT

>> Condolences for the loss of your parents, and your cat. I've been through it also. I'm a cat lover, and can appreciate the bond.

Yeah, she was such a sweet girl. I loved her so much. My dad did, too. (He was a bombardier in WWII and a member of the 397th Bomb Group, 598th Bomb Squadron) -big Oklahoma farm boy. I pride myself in being just like him, and I try to live up to that standard. He was a boxer, golfer, baseball player, business person. Young people are raised so poorly, it seems to me; the internet and the ill-manners one encounters there, seem to evidence this, IMO. I bet zefir never would talk to me like he does, if we were face to face. I'm 6'3" - "LooMing" is an acronym for "looming." :)

I can't relate to people who hide behind pseudonyms and take ill-mannered pot shots at innocent people. I think they're punks. But I suppose I'm a dinosaur from a different era.

Annie passed away two weeks yesterday. I wasn't going to get another cat, but two days after she died, I found myself at the animal shelter and I adopted another cat, a big boy. He's so gentle, and so sweet. Cat photos attached.

P.S.: Looks like I've made two or three friends, after all. Thank you for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OT OT OT OT

>> Condolences for the loss of your parents, and your cat. I've been through it also. I'm a cat lover, and can appreciate the bond.

Yeah, she was such a sweet girl. I loved her so much. My dad did, too. (He was a bombardier in WWI and a member of the 397th Bomb Group, 598th Bomb Squadron) -big Oklahoma farm boy. I pride myself in being just like him, and I try to live up to that standard. He was a boxer, golfer, baseball player, business person. Young people are raised so poorly, it seems to me; the internet and the ill-manners one encounters there, seem to evidence this, IMO. I bet zefir never would talk to me like he does, if we were face to face. I'm 6'3" - "LooMing" is an acronym for "looming." :)

I can't relate to people who hide behind pseudonyms and take ill-mannered pot shots at innocent people. I think they're punks. But I suppose I'm a dinosaur from a different era.

Annie passed away two weeks yesterday. I wasn't going to get another cat, but two days after she died, I found myself at the animal shelter and I adopted another cat, a big boy. He's so gentle, and so sweet. Cat photos attached.

P.S.: Looks like I've made two or three friends, after all. Thank you for that.

++++++++++++++++

Mingloo,

Friends come and friend go. If they do go, let them go. Keep the good memories.

One can see that life has more than just one side, don't forget the bright side.

Enjoy seeing the bright side. The fact that you have many students who have been benefitted by your good teaching

it should be enough to cherish you.

Many of us cannot say the same. I wish in my younger years, I have more influence on the young minds.

The story of my life is boring. No one wants to make a movie out of it unless I cry. It may be a comody. (joking)

Now, I am serious to say your friend, Charley was realy really cute. Hard to find such a cute friend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet zefir never would talk to me like he does, if we were face to face. I'm 6'3" - "LooMing" is an acronym for "looming." wink.gif

Yes, I would talk to you in the same manner. I don't think a mature person that was completely honest and confident in their point of view would resort to implied physical threats. Would you like me to make public in this forum your past threats through personal messages to show how 'friendly' you are to those that disagree with you?

You are only looking for free publicity for your web site, and frankly, am admiring the success you are having.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, ming loo, aka Connie Sunday, playing her usual games with you all yet again. She's not surprised by any of this. She planned and manipulated for it all.

Like zefir, that will no doubt generate another of her usual "pleasant" responses. :)

Neil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, ming loo, aka Connie Sunday, playing her usual games with you all yet again. She's not surprised by any of this. She planned and manipulated for it all.

Like zefir, that will no doubt generate another of her usual "pleasant" responses. :)

Neil

You are right on the money! Connie's antics at various forums are both legendary and amusing. A directory of her online aliases would be more helpful than a directory of luthiers.

Do you really want your name in a luthiers directory where Connie Sunday decides who is and is not "qualified"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any quick search on google shows that "Connie" has had a past indeed. Not only does she always seem to be experiencing the death of things around her (perhaps now her reputation?), she also apparently died and had one of her children inform the others. I also wonder why she/he/it has only a couple of photos of her/his/its self ca. 1970'sish.

FWIW I also think David Burgess' website is EONS better than "Connie's". Connie - who designed your website? A certain Chicago Reuter perhaps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.




×
×
  • Create New...