What causes this angle of tailpiece?

[sleepyhead]

Hello.

I bought my new violin few days ago and I found a little wired thing.

Tailpiece has a liitle slope(as attached file..).

I barely saw that slope at other instrument that I've seen.

What cause this slope? And It could be makes problem?

I need your opnions.

Thanks.

[lvlagneto]

I'll let a heavy hitter respond with a long smart right answer; there are lots of possible causes.

I'm fairly sure that there's always a minor degree of tilt. Is the violin in tune?

[Andres Sender]

I think what's causing the effect most people would notice is that the tailpiece is slightly angled at the top. I'll leave it at that so I don't keep staring at this trying to figure it out.

[Fellow]

Hello.

I bought my new violin few days ago and I found a little wired thing.

Tailpiece has a liitle slope(as attached file..).

I barely saw that slope at other instrument that I've seen.

What cause this slope? And It could be makes problem?

I need your opnions.

Thanks.

+++++++++++++

The tailgut may not equal (length) and the bridge not line up right. Together makes it look

tilt. (Just my guess)

[Janito]

Some have argued that unequal afterlenghts improve the sound.

Others have made asymmetric tailpieces.

Is the tailpiece asymmetrical?

ps - I am assuming the strings are in tune and comprise a matched set.

[Jack Rushing]

I agree with Andres. The top of the tail piece looks angled. A quick, easy, way to tell, is switch tail pieces.

[David Tseng]

I think most likely the 2 holes drilled at the end of the tailpiece are not symmetrical, more on the base side. Replace it with a better tailpiece.

[Brad Dorsey]

A quick, easy, way to tell, is switch tail pieces.

An easier way might be to put a piece of thin cardboard under the tailpiece, trace it, cut out the tracing, slide it back under the tailpiece reversed to check if the tailpiece is symmetrical.

[hrobert]

It can also result from a bridge that is shaped assymetrically.

[Jacob]

It is actually the type of finetuner on the e-string which causes it.

If you look carefully you'll see that the point where the e-string hitches onto the fine-tuner is quite a bit above the fret on the tailpiece - the e-string wants to point in a straight line to the tailgut on the saddle.

It caused me a lot of hassle to figure that out one time when I was working with a finetuner like that. The e-string pushing the tailpiece down also causes the A-string afterlength to be too acute, and messes up the A-string tone.

The moment you put a standard fine-tuner on the e everything will be fine.

[Andres Sender]

So the angled top end is just from perspective Jacob? Drat, I believe you're right.

[sleepyhead]

Thanks for all answers.

Actually, there is no problem in tune. Just quriosity

And, Jacob, As you told I changed finetunner.

It makes little bit more straght. And I think it will be fine for me.

Thanks

[Janito]

The moment you put a standard fine-tuner on the e everything will be fine.

Six of my violins have these Hill fine tuners and none have this appearance of the tailpiece.

There is something else going on...

[C.B.Fiddler]

Agreed, Janito. I've used these tuners on 3 violins with different fittings for over 20 years and have not experienced this.

[Mauricio]

Just out of curiosity, is that a Marchetti violin?

[Michael_Molnar]

I wonder if the bridge is backwards.

Seriously, I see this only when the strings are not brought up to full tension. A Sacconi tailgut should equalize the tailpiece.

Mike

[Jack Rushing]

Sleepyhead,

Can you give us a few more pictures? It now appears to me that the E String is fully tightened, and the other

three are loose. This could pull the tail piece in the position it is in now. Even so, It still looks angled at the end.

I am assuming that the violin has not been tuned.

[sleepyhead]

Mauricio//It's not Marchetti. It's by G. apparut circa 1930.

This violin is now fully tuned, and It doesn't seems to be some problem in playing.

And There is other pictures I takes just now.

Thanks all.

[Jacob]

Sleepyhead,

I'm going to ask you a big favor - if you don't have the time or inclination, no problem, but perhaps it may show me something:

Could you perhaps let us have photos of the tailpiece, like before, with the strings properly tuned, taken from the same aspect and angle:

1. With a standard finetuner;

2. With no finetuner at all (the e-string going straight into the tailpiece).

[David Tseng]

The 2 holes for the tail gut are not properly drilled. The right side hole should be drilled about 1mm more toward the treble side. To correct the problem, simply replace the tailpiece.

[Janito]

To update what I said earlier...

Several no-name tailpieces + Hill fine tuners - no 'apparent' lateral displacment.

1 Bois d'H tailpiece + Hill fine tuner - significant 'apparent' lateral displacment as in OP.

So it's six-of-one-and-one-of-the-other.

ps - I have a fiddle somewhere with an old Beare's tailpiece - will report back. Could be '...two-of-the-other'

[captainhook]

If you think that tailpiece is angled, check this one out (it's not mine):

[sleepyhead]

Thanks all.

I replace my tailpiece.

It became perfectly straght!!

But.. now I have rosewood pegs and evony tailpiece.. :> I should buy new tailpiece or pegs to make unity :>

[Janito]

I replace my tailpiece.

It became perfectly straght!!

Is this with the original E string tuner?

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Clearly, some tailpieces cause the effect and others don't, and quality of workmanship does not appear to be a factor.

I am interested in possible reasons because I have made my own tailpieces and have sometimes compensated for the 'lateral shift' by making the top of the tailpiece asymmetrical so that it is parallel to the bridge.

[MeyerFittings]

Is this with the original E string tuner?

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Clearly, some tailpieces cause the effect and others don't, and quality of workmanship does not appear to be a factor.

I am interested in possible reasons because I have made my own tailpieces and have sometimes compensated for the 'lateral shift' by making the top of the tailpiece asymmetrical so that it is parallel to the bridge.

I was curious about the terrible tilt myself. It's really hard to tell the story from a photo, but

I check my tailpieces with a T square tool the I've had since my guitar making days to make sure that the top and nut are perpendicular to the center line of the tailpiece. I think that the tailpiece in question was out of whack in more than one way. If you can adequately use a photo to measure it seemed about 2mm off of square, the holes may have been off center but that was pretty dark to tell. The sets of photos seem to have two different types of fine tuners and I can't tell from the second set how far out of alignment the tailpiece has become with the type that anchor in front of the tailpiece due to the angle of the view.

I've had the discussion with Tom Croen the other day about the North/South tilt in tailpieces under string tension. This is due to the asymmetry of the bridge diving off to the treble side, a fine tuner holding the string above the nut only accentuates this effect. There is going to be a straight line from the bridge groove to the place where the adjuster breaks over the saddle regardless of the surface of the tailpiece.

I think the East/West tilt is a combination of a not so well made tailpiece that is out of square and perhaps the angle of the slots of the bass side and the fine tuner/s orientation, but I can't tell from the photo.

It would be informative if Sleepyhead would check the tailpiece that he removed to see if the top was square to the center line and how far off the adjuster holes were from the same. Andre, tilt your red line to wards the center of the tail and I think it's still not square to the top. Interesting anyway.