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MikeP

Poggi or not?

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Unfortunally the Violin has nothing to do with Ansaldo Poggi! From the pictures I can`t see any parts wich comes from Poggis hand. Not the model, workmanship, style or varnish. I guess the certificate come from a different Violin.

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So what do you guys think a real poggi worth looking at or not...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...bayphotohosting

That's a new instrument, IMO. I saw a lot of violins just like that one at the NAMM show. I could even make a pretty fair guess at who made it. Styles get pretty easy to recognize after a while. Sure doesn't look like what it's supposed to be.

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The letter may be pretty iffy as well. Would Francais really put a price of $4000 on an unstamped bow without attributing it to someone? I guess it could happen, but you would think they would say it was a french bow or something.

Or I could be full of cheese....

Dwight

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That's a new instrument, IMO. I saw a lot of violins just like that one at the NAMM show. I could even make a pretty fair guess at who made it. Styles get pretty easy to recognize after a while. Sure doesn't look like what it's supposed to be.

Hi Nonado, I will never be able to attend a NAM show and find it amazing that such a good copy of any violin is being sold. Is all of the playing wear that is seen on the photos done by whoever makes these violins or has the ebay owner added even more wear to make it look more played in and older yet? Also, if you are able to reply, are dealers buying many of these and at what price do they sell at retail? Thanks, jj

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Hi Nonado, I will never be able to attend a NAM show and find it amazing that such a good copy of any violin is being sold. Is all of the playing wear that is seen on the photos done by whoever makes these violins or has the ebay owner added even more wear to make it look more played in and older yet? Also, if you are able to reply, are dealers buying many of these and at what price do they sell at retail? Thanks, jj

??? Am I too dense to understand this reply? I have been hanging out spiritually with Magnus on other posts that have some beer and wine involved, while watching where David might be meeting the kids after school :)

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??? Am I too dense to understand this reply? I have been hanging out spiritually with Magnus on other posts that have some beer and wine involved, while watching where David might be meeting the kids after school :)

I don't see any "playing wear" - I see "antiquing".

I'm with the "new violin" identification.

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Hi Nonado, I will never be able to attend a NAM show and find it amazing that such a good copy of any violin is being sold. Is all of the playing wear that is seen on the photos done by whoever makes these violins or has the ebay owner added even more wear to make it look more played in and older yet? Also, if you are able to reply, are dealers buying many of these and at what price do they sell at retail? Thanks, jj

That's just the point. I don't see any real playing wear. The corners and treble C bout aren't worn, no trace of any damage around the treble f-hole, no chips or dings on the edges, etc. Look at the pegbox. None of the wear that you normally see even on 10 year old violins that get a lot of use. Everything is crisp and clean and new looking, once you look past the paint. I see a LOT of instruments in a year's time, and do a fair amount of cosmetic repair, so I'm pretty used to dealing with real wear.

I have done that kind of antiquing work for quite a few years - made new things look old, invisible repairs to antiques, made maple piano lyres and benches match mahogany bodies, etc. With violin family instruments the materials are a little different, and the coatings much thinner, but the principles are the same. The biggest giveaway of all is that the work is overdone.

Chinese instruments I asked about in L A with this sort of antiquing were wholesaling in the $800 to $1000 range, asking price at least. I wasn't real interested in them so I didn't do any negotiating. I see similar items in stores and catalogs, but I don't know how well they sell. Quality varies among makers.

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I am curious about a couple things. How many one piece backed fiddles with faked Poggi labels would have a matching Francais paper? Isn't that a pretty big coincidence? Is the paper forged? Isn't that some pretty nice wood?

Some guy on Violinist.com said he had a Poggi 1923 that was both different looking than usual and antiqued by the maker. I only know fittings. The pegs don't look like something on a Chinese fiddle and they are big shafted and look like they have worn into the box. Of course this could be faked but they look like replacement pegs that have been in for a while. The tailpiece is a nice one matching the pegs, and well made, not Chinese. All this could be added but it's pretty elaborate. I don't know anything about Poggis, but I find this fascinating.

Jeffrey?

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Never look on changing parts! But if you do, I would never expect such big shafted pegs on a fiddle in this range. Nice fittings indeed, but a good restorer on a good fiddle should finish the shafts in a better way. The general style and work is not matching, I have never seen a black painted pegbox on a Poggi ( I havn´t seen a lot, but my desk partner played one for four years).

match

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I saw a fake Carlo Giuseppe Oddone sometime ago, branded, fake certicate, fake label etc. It could easily fool a player. It came from Germany.

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That's just the point. I don't see any real playing wear. The corners and treble C bout aren't worn, no trace of any damage around the treble f-hole, no chips or dings on the edges, etc. Look at the pegbox. None of the wear that you normally see even on 10 year old violins that get a lot of use. Everything is crisp and clean and new looking, once you look past the paint. I see a LOT of instruments in a year's time, and do a fair amount of cosmetic repair, so I'm pretty used to dealing with real wear.

I have done that kind of antiquing work for quite a few years - made new things look old, invisible repairs to antiques, made maple piano lyres and benches match mahogany bodies, etc. With violin family instruments the materials are a little different, and the coatings much thinner, but the principles are the same. The biggest giveaway of all is that the work is overdone.

Chinese instruments I asked about in L A with this sort of antiquing were wholesaling in the $800 to $1000 range, asking price at least. I wasn't real interested in them so I didn't do any negotiating. I see similar items in stores and catalogs, but I don't know how well they sell. Quality varies among makers.

Hi Nanodo, thank you for taking the time for your very helpful reply.jj

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I’m assuming that this is the same violin up for sale once again.

Interesting how it was listed with a reserve price, the reserve price was met and it sold for $16,000, and now, a day later, it’s for sale again.

The seller is stating that it is made by Poggi. Since the buyer will be paying by PayPal and probably using a credit card, the buyer could easily do a chargeback if it’s found to be a forgery. I find it interesting that the seller would use the “by” word since the buyer will have substantial damage control measures available.

I find myself feeling very curious about the seller and the violin :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Italian-Violin-ANS...=item1e5a66a580

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