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Hank Schutz

Restoration and Identity

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The Whalebone Lapping thread raised these question to which I wonder if there are generally-agreed-to answers.

Suppose a valuable bow by Peccatte is restored (in a historically authentic way) with a new frog, lapping, winder, tip plate -- all that's left of the original is the stick itself. Is it still a Peccatte?

What if the restoration includes some historically inauthentic items (as the lapping thread suggested might be the case)?

What if everything is original except the stick?

I suppose analogous questions may apply to violins. If I'm not mistaken, I think I have seen an auction in which a violin was offered that had only a plate by Stradivari, and everything else was a replacement part. Apparently many Cremonese masterpieces have newer necks and scrolls without loss of identity.

Just curious

HS

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The way I've always understood it is that bows are similar to instruments in that the parts that need replacing from time to time don't have a great effect on value or authenticity. So the the ivory, the screw (not the button, but the screw itself), the eyelet or the leather can be replaced without significant loss of value. That isn't to say that a bow that has all of its original parts wouldn't be worth above "normal" market value -- it probably would. But the market isn't going to penalize a bow that has a new tip facing on it, as long as it's the same material that was there originally (you wouldn't want to put an ivory tip on a Hill, for instance).

The major parts of the bow that affect authenticity and value are the stick, the frog, and the button. Lapping seems to be a gray area, with some bows having more value if they have the original lapping, but changing the lapping won't affect the authenticity of a bow.

As far as what to call a bow, I think the stick is the relevant part. A Peccatte stick with a replacement frog and button is a Peccatte. A Voirin stick with a Bazin frog on it is a Voirin.

Any other thoughts?

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The stick, frog, and button, are all "signatures" of the maker. Hair, wedges, slides, screws, lapping, leather, etc., are all "wear" items, and may need to be replaced at some time. The value of a bow, without its original frog, would be a fraction of the value with the original frog.

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What if a stick from a particular maker is combined with a frog from that same maker but originally from another bow? Does anyone know if this is done and what the ramifications are?

Thanks alot!

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What if a stick from a particular maker is combined with a frog from that same maker but originally from another bow? Does anyone know if this is done and what the ramifications are?

Thanks alot!

If you follow auctions ,you will see this all the time,it doesnt seem to effect the value much at all,particularly amongst the more expensive makers.

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"If you follow auctions ,you will see this all the time."

How do you see it? Is the replacement frog mentioned in the catalog description? If it isn't, how do you know it's a replacement?

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"If you follow auctions ,you will see this all the time."

How do you see it? Is the replacement frog mentioned in the catalog description? If it isn't, how do you know it's a replacement?

Hi Brad, yes its usually mentioned in the catalogue description.If it isnt mentioned then you cant really tell from pictures without examining the bows seating.(unless its painfully obvious).

peccatte

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Hi Brad, yes its usually mentioned in the catalogue description.If it isnt mentioned then you cant really tell from pictures without examining the bows seating.(unless its painfully obvious).

peccatte

Or this one where the frog looks too wide for the stick,though it doesnt say whether the frog is certainly by Fonclause or not.

fonclause

There is also an awful lot of bows with wrong frogs ,which arent mentioned by the auction house.

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"If it isnt mentioned then you cant really tell from pictures without examining the bows seating.(unless its painfully obvious)."

I would say that it's painfully obvious in your Peccatte example and not so much so, at least to me, in the Fonclause.

I was thinking more of a situation where you have a stick with a replacement frog, made by the same maker, that fits perfectly on the stick. Then I would think it impossible to detect the replacement by examining the bow. And there are ways to alter a non-fitting frog to make it fit.

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"If it isnt mentioned then you cant really tell from pictures without examining the bows seating.(unless its painfully obvious)."

I would say that it's painfully obvious in your Peccatte example and not so much so, at least to me, in the Fonclause.

I was thinking more of a situation where you have a stick with a replacement frog, made by the same maker, that fits perfectly on the stick. Then I would think it impossible to detect the replacement by examining the bow. And there are ways to alter a non-fitting frog to make it fit.

I thought more the other way around.The Peccatte could just have a loose eyelet. But its hard to tell from just one photo.I agree with a frog made by the same maker as a replacement wouldn,t look out of place but thats unlikely in the case of Peccatte as the thread title suggests.The Fonclause frog to me looks like a later copy.There seems to be an alot of Peccattes around with either frogs from other bows or other makers,and their prices dont seem too affected.(particularly over here in Europe.)

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