Wittner geared pegs?

[polkat]

I see where Wittner has released a geared peg much like the Perfection pegs, but with a claimed 8.5:1 gear reduction for finer tuning. Has anyone been able to try these yet, or know where they might be available, and at what price compaired to Perfections? Thanks!

[martina hawe]

I see where Wittner has released a geared peg much like the Perfection pegs, but with a claimed 8.5:1 gear reduction for finer tuning. Has anyone been able to try these yet, or know where they might be available, and at what price compaired to Perfections? Thanks!

Hi

I fitted a set of those pegs to a student instrument a few weeks ago.

They come in 2 shaft sizes as you don´t ream the pegs down but enlarge the holes to the peg.

Fitting them is fairly quick. Just ream out one hole to suitable size and mark the reamer there. I had to recut the peg ends again and again caus I didn´t push them in hard enough first time, you need to push quite a lot actually for the shafts to get a good grip...

Tuning feels a bit odd when you´re used to normal pegs, you can feel the clicks of the gear a little but fine tuning works really well!

It´s tricky to get peg ends looking nice, even very fine sandpaper always left scratches in the plastic.

When I got them they were about 10€ for one peg. Saves fitting time though and you´ll never have to work on them again

hope that helps

Martina

[polkat]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I've fitted a lot of Perfection pegs. I guess I'm more interested in finding out where these Wittner pegs might be available in the US, and what "10C" might be in American dollars. I am assuming that they are more expensive then the Perfections. How well do they work in compairison?

[martina hawe]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I've fitted a lot of Perfection pegs. I guess I'm more interested in finding out where these Wittner pegs might be available in the US, and what "10C" might be in American dollars. I am assuming that they are more expensive then the Perfections. How well do they work in compairison?

10 €/Euros is about 13 USD.

I remember a company selling them at the VSA convention, forgot which one... maybe someone else remembers...

martina

[DarylG]

I remember a company selling them at the VSA convention, forgot which one... maybe someone else remembers...

It was Metropolitan Music.

[polkat]

Thanks DarylG, Yep they have them, but not at $13 apeice...more like $20 each. They sell a small shaft and a medium shaft size, which oddly, seems to be measured at the trim ring rather then at the widest portion of the shaft. I'm also concerned about the quality compaired to Perfection pegs. I still have some early Perfections on one of my personal violins that still work perfectly. Are the Wittner's as good?

[Ken Pollard]

.. I still have some early Perfections on one of my personal violins that still work perfectly. Are the Wittner's as good?

Hi Polkat,

I have yet to try them, but have heard many good reports regarding the Perfection pegs. I'm still basically an ebony-peg user.

Maybe it's just a turn of phrase, but if the Perfections "work perfectly", why are you looking at others? Cost? Ease of installation?

Thanks,

Ken

[polkat]

Well, I personally one more then one violin. I won't be changing out the one with Perfections, but I'm interested in both the 8.5:1 ratio, and I suppose the ease of installation has it's merits as well. I've installed a number of sets of Perfections now for school kids, and easier (make that quicker) installs would be interesting. I'm a firm believer in this type of peg and probably won't go back to ebony on my personal stuff.

[soundshapes]

Hi

I have installed the Wittner FineTune-Pegs on a violin and find love them- I am installing a set on a 5 string violin next and will make an ebony tailpiece to replace the Thomastik. Nice to get away from the metal tailpieces with built-in tuners. he install feels reversible if care is taken on how installed.

Info about the Wittner FineTune-pegs that document an installation can be found at: www.soundshapes.info

This is not a DIY project unless you have the tools and some level of experience to install them.

[Ed Shillitoe]

They are on sale this month from International Violin, at $15 each. I got some and they seem OK - however the taper is not exactly 30:1. You have to wrap paper or something around the large end to get them to fit a 30:1 peg hole. They are supposed to fit without glue, but I have had a hard time getting them in firmly. I don't want to glue them in because any future problems in removing them.

So, they are OK, but I'm not really impressed. I could fit standard pegs in the same amount of time.

Ed

[Ken Pollard]

They are on sale this month from International Violin, at $15 each. ...

So, they are OK, but I'm not really impressed. I could fit standard pegs in the same amount of time.

Ed

I got some thru Howard Core, similar deal. Put the A and e on my main fiddle, strung with Helicores.

I'm disappointed. I don't like the looks of the thumb-pieces -- a bit too plastic. The 8.5 is a nice gear-ratio, but I still need fine tuners. The tuning is chunky, not continuous. End up with a pitch just below or just over.

They did install easy, and in the couple weeks they've been on, seem to hold position.

I haven't trimmed them to length yet, as I don't know that I'll keep them on that fiddle. Can't comment on the ease of that. I think they're a bit easier to install than ebony pegs, but not much, and you don't have any wiggle room on the diameter at the pegbox.

The suggested retail is $175, whatever that means. I don't think I could move too many in that price range.

[Oded Kishony]

Nova Accessories has them. I installed a set recently. I didn't care for the clicky feel, the pegs don't run smoothly, you can feel the gears.

I ended up gluing them in place because, as Martina experienced, once fitted they seem to compress more. I discovered that an e string will jam between the rotating center portion and the stationary part. I broke a full set of strings before I could sort it all out. If the 'a' string is riding on one of the other pegs it will get shredded in very short order because the rotating part has sharp grooves that are meant to grab the string, milled on the surface that act like a very sharp file. My favorite planetary pegs are 'pegheds' made by the originator of planetary pegs Charles Hering. I installed 12 of them a couple of weeks ago on two Gambas. They are a bit trickier to install but they work much better.

Oded

[Fellow]

I see where Wittner has released a geared peg much like the Perfection pegs, but with a claimed 8.5:1 gear reduction for finer tuning. Has anyone been able to try these yet, or know where they might be available, and at what price compaired to Perfections? Thanks!

++++++++++++++++++++

My experience of installing and using the "perfection pegs" (two sets) on my two violins has been very positive.

I would suggest others to try one set first. If your instruements are expensive kind, please have it done professionally

in a shop. Left side and right sides pegs are different. They look the same. My guess they are turned in different directions.

I don't know Wittner equivalents, my guess they would be just as good.

Would I return to friction pegs? Short answer, "No way"

[onolennon8]

Don't use the cheap copy cats. Get the pegs from Chuck.

www.pegheds.com

[DonLeister]

John (Chuck) Herin is the Pegheads man, his are planetary gears using a wooden thumbpiece (new or existing) fitted in the geared shaft. Same price whether he installs them on your instrument or ships them and you do the install.

I believe he holds the patent and Perfection Pegs is made under his patent, but they make their shafts and thumbpiece out of plastic, so if you have a nice decorative peg and wanted to have it look pretty much the same, Pegheads would be the way to go.

I have not installed any of these but have some perfection pegs in the event. They are heavier than wooden pegs.

[polkat]

I haven't really noticed the extra weight on the violins I own and have installed them on. Yes, there is a weight gain, but it seems insignificant to me.

The Perfection pegs I have installed did have the plastic heads (including a visable seam from the casting process). I smoothed off the seam with mild sandpaper and painted the heads and the exposed shaft a boxwood color. Looks good and works fine. My interest in the other pags was the 8.5:1 ratio, but responses here indicate that the gearing is not smooth. That's a big negative for me so I guess I'll stay with the Perfections.

There seems to be some resistance to these peg types as they are not traditional. I think this is rather odd. I realize that the desires of the customer drives the market, but the violin is one of the few stringed instruments that has resisted improvements over the years based on the idea that "...over the centuries the violin has become as good as it can get." Well, I also play and make guitars and mandolins, and I would never consider putting friction pegs on them, as was once the norm.

[Oded Kishony]

It's not at all clear to me that planetary geared pegs are an improvement over well fitted, lubricated friction pegs. Each has it's strengths and weakenesses

Oded

[Oded Kishony]

Update on the Wittner planetary pegs.

I just installed another set and it went much, much better.

A couple of points: When fitting the pegs, the inboard stationary portion of the peg must not protrude into the pegbox. So, when fitting the peg, ream the hole until about half the moving section is visible in the pegbox, then push the peg in until it won't go any more. If the peg isn't deep enough, push the peg out by pressing the end of the peg NOT by pulling on the head of the peg.

For finishing the end of the peg I use a mill bastard file to remove all saw marks, followed by w/d sandpaper (600), finish by twisting the end of the peg into fine steel wool, then after th peg in installed a touch of wax gives it a nice soft sheen.

Despite the fact that there is some gear feel to these pegs, the rotation itself is actually very smooth and I have no problem tuning accurately.

While I had serious misgivings at first, I think these pegs are better than my initial experience with them indicated. I intend to continue to offer them to my customers.

Oded

[Ed Shillitoe]

But Oded, are you still having to glue them in? I have managed to fit three out of four without glue, but can't find a way to make the last one (the A) stay in place. It seems half the advantage to the Wittner is that the company claims they do not need glue and so can be removed in one piece at any time.

I think part of the problem is that they are not exactly a 1:30 taper - or else my Herdim reamer is not accurate.

Ed

[Oded Kishony]

Hi Ed,

No I did not glue these in but I did jam them in pretty hard. I don't think the taper is exactly 1:30 but I'm sure it's deliberatly done that way.

I think even if they are glued in with super glue you could drive them out with a few taps to reverse them out.

I also coincidentally get a positive report from a player whose had them installed for a while.

Oded

[GMM22]

But Oded, are you still having to glue them in? I have managed to fit three out of four without glue, but can't find a way to make the last one (the A) stay in place. It seems half the advantage to the Wittner is that the company claims they do not need glue and so can be removed in one piece at any time.

Ed

Powdered rosin will offer significantly more friction to help things stay in place, but without the hassle of glue. I have seen the stability of close fitting things increase by an order of magnitude with a liberal application of powdered rosin.

[Oded Kishony]

Good idea!

~OK

[DonLeister]

It's good to hear some positive feedback on these pegs.

Oded, how well did the pegs seat- the collar to outside of pegbox distance? Did they stick out the same distance as wooden ones do? (11mm to the collar)

NOVA Strings carries them so I asked them to weigh a set and they came in at 40gr. which is a consideration. I think the perfection set weighs 28gr. about 10 more than ebony.

I had wanted to try them (Perfections) on a violin and as a test I put a 10 gram weight on the pegbox , it was noticable and not a good thing. This was a light instrument and perhaps more sensitive to weight changes.

[Oded Kishony]

Hi Don,

The pegs seated very nicely at about 11mm, You don't have much choice about collar to pegbox distance since you have to seat the peg so that the rotating part is properly positioned.

Oded

[Andrew Victor]

starting 18 months ago I self-installed Pegheds and or Knilling Perfection Planetary Pegs in 6 violins (including one 5-string), one viola, and 3 cellos.

I am delighted with the results and ease of tuning in all cases. I have used superglue to hold the pegs from slipping. I did my own reaming (after buying the necessary tools).

However, with an instrument with high intrinsic, antique, or personal value, I would not (and have not) install them or have them installed without a lot of thought.

Andy