Rue Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Well, slightly less drastic than screws, and even less "permanent" than even velcro...what about this: Attach a flange around the top and bottom of the post. Maybe using linen? If so, cost would be negligible. The post can still be moved/reset/removed if required but can't fall over. P.s. if anyone patents this idea, I get 10% royalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_oa Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I recall a spring loaded soundpost that automatically adjusted for length. That would be the easy solution for the present problem. Not ideal, but-- better than no soundpost at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Rue said: Well, slightly less drastic than screws, and even less "permanent" than even velcro...what about this: Attach a flange around the top and bottom of the post. Maybe using linen? If so, cost would be negligible. The post can still be moved/reset/removed if required but can't fall over. P.s. if anyone patents this idea, I get 10% royalties. I messed around with a similar concept a few years ago, but decided that it turned a simple, economical, and proven procedure into a complicated, expensive, and potentially destructive one, with no tonal improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violadamore Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Got bitten by the MN upgrade during an edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Yes. No tonal improvement. The advantage would soley be to keep student cellos playable...after being bashed around during a normal high-school day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Brown Posted February 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 This a Jurassic thread that has come back to haunt me! The school instrument thing is something I do not miss about my former life! Those damn plywood 'cellos can shed them like nobodies business! Cheers! DLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caerolle Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Dwight Brown said: This a Jurassic thread that has come back to haunt me! The school instrument thing is something I do not miss about my former life! Those damn plywood 'cellos can shed them like nobodies business! Cheers! DLB I call these zombie threads. I like the forums where threads are locked after 30 days of inactivity. If someone wants to return to the topic (not sure what the point was for this one...), they can link to the old thread as background, but perhaps reframe the topic according to the point they want to make. But I expect people here like things the way they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, caerolle said: I call these zombie threads. I like the forums where threads are locked after 30 days of inactivity. If someone wants to return to the topic (not sure what the point was for this one...), they can link to the old thread as background, but perhaps reframe the topic according to the point they want to make. But I expect people here like things the way they are. I agree! But then I give up and go with the flow. At least Dwight is still here to respond (if he wants to!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwight Brown Posted February 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2021 Not complaining, just remembering the hell of trying to keep the posts up on those damn plywood cellos! Still think I would have glued them to the back! I don't miss that aspect of my 29 years as a school orchestra director on the edge of the world. DLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Televet Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 I understand where this thread came from and why, but every time I see the title it makes me shudder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Roop Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 So, is this a prevalent problem around the world?? I can imagine a simple solution for all posts except maybe it would not be desireable for the upper crust of instruments. If I come up with a spruce post/ accessory design that once set and installed will not fall or move by itself, how many might I sell? sell price if produced in volume likely in the order of $20 ... worth researching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 You can always just drive a thin nail down through the top into the post, like this. I was going to adjust the post on this repair - it was in for something else - and decided the post was just fine where it was. Please note that this was a sarcastic suggestion - don't do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Roop Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Brad H said: You can always just drive a thin nail down through the top into the post,.... Yes you can but I would not dream of doing that on the worst of instruments.... If I did dream, it would be a nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Smith Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 If you're gonna bother to glue it in, be sure to get it where it goes before it sets,, think,, "Rubbed Joints" better yet,, use gorilla glue,, never know when some one might spill a beer in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Mat Roop said: Yes you can but I would not dream of doing that on the worst of instruments.... If I did dream, it would be a nightmare! I suppose my sarcastic post might lead some astray - I will amend it to make this clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Kasprzyk Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 11 hours ago, Brad H said: You can always just drive a thin nail down through the top into the post, like this. I was going to adjust the post on this repair - it was in for something else - and decided the post was just fine where it was. Please note that this was a sarcastic suggestion - don't do this. Is the nail going down through the top or is it a pin coming up from the inside? I want to do this correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said: Is the nail going down through the top or is it a pin coming up from the inside? I want to do this correctly. Another Marty-induced chuckle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Burgess Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 2:40 PM, GeorgeH said: Screw in the top, screw in the back, done. Yup. A removable screw would have allowed Brad to re-position the post, within a limited range, before putting the screw back in to re-secure it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Magnets!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Beard Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 Wow. Just, wow. Posts are meant to be movable, adjustable, and replacable. Violins are meant to be good enough to merit the trouble. If a violin is so bad that you don't mind gluing or nailing the post in place, then go ahead. Glue and nail that post in place. Then finish the job by tossing the violin in the trash bin. Or, paint the whole violin in a cute way, cut it open and install a litlle shelf. Hang it on the wall as a cute display for small items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Roop Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 18 hours ago, Mat Roop said: So, is this a prevalent problem around the world?? I can imagine a simple solution for all posts except maybe it would not be desireable for the upper crust of instruments. If I come up with a spruce post/ accessory design that once set and installed will not fall or move by itself, how many might I sell? sell price if produced in volume likely in the order of $20 ... worth researching? So no one has answered my question... Based on Dwight's frustrations... is this a general issue??? ... worth researching and developing a solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Kasprzyk Posted February 15, 2021 Report Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 hours ago, David Burgess said: Yup. A removable screw would have allowed Brad to re-position the post, within a limited range, before putting the screw back in to re-secure it. The usual sound post is purposely made a little too long so that it can be wedged into place to securely hold it. This puts the plate wood into a tension stress and its cross grain strength is real low so sound post cracks are a common problem. To prevent this from happening I used to glue kraft paper disks on the inside of the top and back plates to strengthen the wood there. If you made the sound post a little too short then a screw coming in from the outside would pull the top plate inward to meet the soundpost. This would put an arched plate into a compression stress. The compressive strength in the cross grain direction for wood is much stronger than in tension so this should greatly reduce the likelihood of sound post cracks. This is the similar reasoning to why curved concrete dams have their convex side facing the water. Concrete is much stronger in compression than tension. The position of the screwed in sound post could be made adjustable by having the screw holes through the plates much larger than the screw diameter. Large diameter washers could be used to spread the load over a large area and I suggest using spherical shaped screw heads and washers to accommodate the slopes of the plates. A variation of this idea would be to make the soundpost way too short. The screw could then be turned in or out to put the plates into various amounts of compressive stress. This could change the plate vibration behavior and perhaps the sound character could be further adjusted. This would be similar to these new screw adjustable sound posts but it would have an advantage of not having much risk of overdoing it and cracking the plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 ...or...flanges AND magnets!!! Never mind...extended periods of extreme cold does strange things to the mind...I'm off to cover myself in nice, warm, cats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted February 16, 2021 Report Share Posted February 16, 2021 4 hours ago, David Beard said: Wow. Just, wow I haven't read the entire thread but the comments I have seen have all been facetious. 1 hour ago, Marty Kasprzyk said: Large diameter washers could be used to spread the load over a large area and I suggest using spherical shaped screw heads and washers to accommodate the slopes of the plates. Titanium washers, I assume to lighten the load... Another solution which derives from a similar- but much more misguided - principle as the integral bass bar, would be to carve the post from each plate. The half-height posts from each plate - one of spruce and one of maple - would then be joined together in some fashion as the top was glued on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.