Scratchy violin?

[polkat]

Newest aqusition is an American violin made about 1870 from good woods and is fully blocked. Scratchy sound....? Well, maybe not scratchy but it quite often sounds like the bow is strung with very fine sandpaper rather then horsehair, particularly on the G and D strings. It happens with different bows and strings (so far I have tried Zyex, Helicores and Perludes). I've tried moving the post and cutting a new bridge, neither of which changed the problem. Usually the A strings are fairly smooth and the E's are quite nice. String after length is 55mm and the string heights above the fingerboard are standard. The violin has a nice tone without this problem when plucked. Can't figure this one out. It's a scratchy sound, not a rattle or buzz. Also, ALL of the strings whistle a bit regardless of brand, and the violin is a bit quiet (even with Zyex). Any ideas?

[fiddler59]

Newest aqusition is an American violin made about 1870 from good woods and is fully blocked. Scratchy sound....? Well, maybe not scratchy but it quite often sounds like the bow is strung with very fine sandpaper rather then horsehair, particularly on the G and D strings. It happens with different bows and strings (so far I have tried Zyex, Helicores and Perludes). I've tried moving the post and cutting a new bridge, neither of which changed the problem. Usually the A strings are fairly smooth and the E's are quite nice. String after length is 55mm and the string heights above the fingerboard are standard. The violin has a nice tone without this problem when plucked. Can't figure this one out. It's a scratchy sound, not a rattle or buzz. Also, ALL of the strings whistle a bit regardless of brand, and the violin is a bit quiet (even with Zyex). Any ideas?

I would take the fiddle to really good setup person. May have some issues like open seams. Sometimes you have to go outside of the norm on things like string after length, sound post, bridge cut to get cranky fiddles to behave. Some fiddles are so cranky they never behave !!

David B

[Torbjörn Zethelius]

Check for open seams, hidden cracks, etc. Poorly fitted soundposts can cause whistles. A customers' violin had loose purfling that made it sound bad on the E-string and hard to tune.

[FiddleDoug]

I'm not a very good player, and when my playing sounds bad, I usually blame it on "the nut at the end of the bow". Seriously, have you looked inside the instrument to see what the inside of the top plate and bass bar look like? looking through the endpin hole, you can see all kinds of stuff. Is the bass bar carved into the top?, correct size? With bright light outside the instrument, any open seams will also show up pretty well.

[Woodland]

What direction did you move the post? The first thing I would do is to move the soundpost south (away from the bridge and towards the endpin.)

[troutabout]

What Torbjorn said. Also a truely responsive violin will reflect noise from the left hand or any handling and project it with amplification. You may be focusing on the incidental bowing noise that isn't as noticeable to the audience.

[Don Noon]

Maybe this won't be of much help, but I think the graduation would be too thick, of bass bar too stiff. "Scratchy" to me means good overtones, but weak fundamentals. On the lower strings, that would be caused by a structure that is too stiff. If the wood is any good, I would expect the E string to have noticably better power and projection than the other strings. Is the E "quiet" too, or is it louder than the others? Here's where a frequency response plot might help figuring out what's the problem... but let's not open that can of worms in this thread.

[polkat]

Yes, I opened this one to repair a crack that was just starting in the upper bout on the treble side. Other then cleaning this crack and regluing (with two small cleats) the body is solid as are the purfling and bassbar. The graduations of the top run roughly about 2.5mm all over, so it's not too thick in my opinion, and the post is well fitted.

Now this might seem dumb, but since I get this problem regardless of string type or bow, I thought about it and realized that I've been using the same rosin (D'Addario natural light) on all my bows since I obtained this violin (someone gave me the rosin and I never waste anything). Could this be a rosin problem?

[richardz]

I have a similar problem and like Troutabout said it might be a truly responsive violin. They are all different in response curves and what is normal technique for some is too much, or not right etc for another. My violin is ultra light and flexible. I had the soundpost moved south and shortened. That seemed to help a bit. Tight and near the bridge is no good. A responsive violin will transmit the high frequency friction noise so you need as much string resonance as you can get. I was afraid moving the soundpost away from the bridge would lower the volume a lot, but that didn't happen with this violin.

A trick or technique I discovered is if I wipe all the rosin off the strings before playing and put new rosin on the bow each time I play, after it adheres to the strings in a few minutes of playing, it rings very well. As you said, try some different rosins. Tartini is smoother but less bite, I've been using Hill dark.

Also someone mentioned the scratching might not be as audible from a distance. It might be a whole different character but you still want to do all you can to minimize it. I would also check if the nut is high enough. On mine th worst offender was the a string and it turned out it was almost all the way down on the fingerboard. If the nut on yours is too low, once again you're not getting optimum string resonance to overshadow the scratch.

Also, It turns out the neck is a bit off laterally on my violin too but I don't know if that causes the scratchiness problem.

I will be interested to see what else pops up here for your benefit, and mine too.

[polkat]

Nut seems fine, about half the G string diameter between the strings and fingerboard. I've tried recording it from across the room and hear the problem all the same. I'll clean the bows and try a different rosin.

[richardz]

One other thought I had that has more to do with technique and is psychological: if it is a responsive violin it is very loud. I noticed as I get used to this violin, I tend to not bear down because it is loud therefore I get more of the scratching and less of the tone. I am having to acclimate myself to bearing into the violin and getting used to hearing a loud sound. It is an education.

Also I'm using the new Zyex composite strings on it at the moment which are supposed to warm up a bright sounding instrument according to their website. If your violin is bright, it is also transmitting and projecting the higher frequencies more. Don't lose heart, It takes a little while to comprehend the forces at play here. FYI, My violin is also an American from 1912. By reading Steve Burgess' website, I get the concept that if one is not used to high performance it might sound bad to begin with, but once you figure out what is going on, and play with a more focused bow technique and don't be shy about the volume, it is better and there is much more to play with. Hope this is clear.