Peg hole bushings?

[polkat]

For some reason I've never gotten around to doing peg holes. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the process? And where can you get the bushings. I hear that there are several different types.

Thanks!

[Johnmasters]

For some reason I've never gotten around to doing peg holes. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the process? And where can you get the bushings. I hear that there are several different types.

Thanks!

Another thread just posted a lot of ideas. Premade conical sleeves using delrin mandrels and conical hole in a delrin block. The material is Kraft paper or similar.

See thread "pegbox repair"

[polkat]

I have some old, never fitted rosewood pegs that the heads were cut off of for another project a few years ago. The remaining shafts seem to fit these oversized peg holes almost perfectly. Other then the color problem, what would be the problems in using rosewood for bushing material?

[Jerry Lynn]

I have some old, never fitted rosewood pegs that the heads were cut off of for another project a few years ago. The remaining shafts seem to fit these oversized peg holes almost perfectly. Other then the color problem, what would be the problems in using rosewood for bushing material?

If you just want the experience of doing bushings on a scrap fiddle, I would hold out for boxwood. Rosewood would "probably" work (meaning they would fill the hole)... but man, would it look ugly, and be tough to trim. Do a search for endgrain bushings and spiral bushings. Read on the advantages and disadvantages of each. Endgrain bushing blanks are available from most of the violin supply houses.

H.L.

*edited for clarity

[Fellow]

For some reason I've never gotten around to doing peg holes. Can anyone give me a quick rundown on the process? And where can you get the bushings. I hear that there are several different types.

Thanks!

++++++++++++++++++++

You need a reamer and a four (bushing) sticks.

(1) make the old hole slightly bigger. (easy)

(2) glue the sticks in the new holes, and cut both ends when they dried. (easy)

(3) drill new holes (hard to get them straight, extra cares are needed) This time just big enough to fit your new pegs (forget the old pegs if I were you)

I would put a set of "perfection pegs" after all this work.

Good luck.

[Johnmasters]

++++++++++++++++++++

You need a reamer and a four (bushing) sticks.

(1) make the old hole slightly bigger. (easy)

(2) glue the sticks in the new holes, and cut both ends when they dried. (easy)

(3) drill new holes (hard to get them straight, extra cares are needed) This time just big enough to fit your new pegs (forget the old pegs if I were you)

I would put a set of "perfection pegs" after all this work.

Good luck.

You should likely cut the sticks in the pegbox area to fit the small hole first and then the big hole. This is because reamers and shapers are difficult to get EXACTLY the same taper. When I fit pegs, I usually have the small end slightly oversize and trim it with a smaller shaper hole.

[Jacob]

++++++++++++++++++++

You need a reamer and a four (bushing) sticks.

Yea, don't worry about a peg-shaper - just chew on the pegs till they fit.

(1) make the old hole slightly bigger. (easy)

BS

(2) glue the sticks in the new holes, and cut both ends when they dried. (easy)

Say what?

(3) drill new holes (hard to get them straight, extra cares are needed) This time just big enough to fit your new pegs (forget the old pegs if I were you)

Seriously?

I would put a set of "perfection pegs" after all this work.

In what? The above-described procedure? Then let me show you how to make a chocolate cake from mud and cow-pat.

Good luck.

Lots - you'll need a Hadron to generate what you'll need with the above recipe.

[polkat]

Well, this problem came about as I was actually considering getting some perfection pegs for one violin I have (this one belongs to me but is not particularly valuable), but someone did a real hack job on it reaming the peg holes out to accept (new?) uncut pegs, and the large side of the holes is nearly 10mm wide! Even the threads on Perfections arn't that wide, so I figure that bushings would be the only way to go. I've just never done bushings before. Is there another way to go?

[Oded Kishony]

Is there another way to go?

Take it a competent violin shop/luthier.

The shaver is carefully adjusted to the reamer. Afer it's adjusted the peg is tested in a 'practice hole' to be sure

of a perfect fit. Although some people like the narrower end to engage the hole first.

The shaver as it arrives from the supplier is never adjusted properly and often is dull. There are some high end shavers that I understand are ready to use out of the box.

Oded

[~ Ben Conover]

Interesting Oded, if the narrow end contacts first, then the thick end will turn last, which means the peg shaft will twist....not good.

If there is to be anything but a 'perfect' fit, then I rather make the thick end contact first.

[Oded Kishony]

Hi Ben,

Admittedly this is not something I do. I like to have both ends contact at the same time. But there are other views.

There is a newish German shaver that's supposed to be superb and adjustable for different types of reamers and in fractional sizes.

Oded

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Interesting Oded, if the narrow end contacts first, then the thick end will turn last, which means the peg shaft will twist....not good.

If there is to be anything but a 'perfect' fit, then I rather make the thick end contact first.

I agree with Ben. If the small end contacts first, bad things can happen. A while ago, I believe someone (one of those British guys on the board ) mentioned that some lute makers purposefully leave the small end of the peg a little loose. Was that you, Melvin?

[~ Ben Conover]

Oded, I have a very light beard so I just use an electric shaver twice a week.

Best shave I ever had was the traditional hot wet shave in Hallowell, east coast U.S.A.

For violin pegs, I have the usual four hole milled brass thing, with adjustable blades, it's very good.

There is a more expensive one which is I think what you refer to, but I like brass.

The worst shaver I ever used was the first one I owned, a T shaped aluminium thing with an adjustable V slot for the peg and a thin blade. It chattered more than the pegbox forum.

For wooden 'Cello endpins you can ream a hole in a wood block then attatch a nice thick old plane blade, works ok.

If you use some soap on the peg shaft you can see clearly the balance between thin and thick end contact.

I wonder if the smaller holes on lutes and viols are more difficult fit than larger holes.

[polkat]

Well, I've shaved a lot of pegs and reamed a lot of pegholes without a problem. I am a luthier, amatuer I admit, but I own and know how to use the tools. I've just never done bushings before and was looking for some tips. But thanks for the responses.

[Fellow]

Hi Jacob,

I knew you would say things like this. I am not a professional but I consider my wood working skill

belong to "not bad" level. Sometime my suggestions, they make economic sense. Do they?

(reamer is 2 degree, new pegs are also 2 degree, job would become a lot easier,, except the new holes

another story)

Two points determine a line in space (3-dim) if the four lines in space all parallel, then they look good.

Some professionals can make them parallel, but other may not be able to.

[fiddleD125]

This job is not an easy one. It takes skill and research before attempting the job. I learned much from asking questions on this forum. Search "bushing peg holes" on Maesronet. The best instruction I got aside from the luthier's answers on Maestronet was by ordering a back issue of Strings Magazine (December, 1990 issue) which includes the protion of Weishaar and Shipman's A MANUAL FOR VIOLIN MAKERS titled Bushing Pegholes. Great instruction and photos. Go to sringsmagazine.com and ask if it is still availabe- WELL WORTH YOUR TIME AND MONEY. I hope it is still available or you.

[polkat]

Thanks fiddleD125,

I may have that issue, and if not I'll try to order it. I have ordered some boxwood bushing sticks as it seems they are the most common used.

[Jacob]

Yuen, if there is one thing you should try to wrap your brain around, it's this:

Bad advice is worse than no advice at all.

To get to comprehend this is an attainable goal.

[Janito]

Yuen, if there is one thing you should try to wrap your brain around, it's this:

Bad advice is worse than no advice at all.

To get to comprehend this is an attainable goal.

Let's not stifle the flame.

J.K. Rowling's next book has been postponed, so book stores need a slim 'How to..' novella to fill the gap for those long dark and dreary nights.

(just realised this may kick off a frenzy of hits)

[Fellow]

Let's not stifle the flame.

J.K. Rowling's next book has been postponed, so book stores need a slim 'How to..' novella to fill the gap for those long dark and dreary nights.

(just realised this may kick off a frenzy of hits)

+++++++++++++++++++++

"Bad advice" or "Good advice"?

It all depends how well do you understand the instruction. I said " extra cares are needed " is good advice to some because

that is all they need to know. If you expand the detail it is boring.

Let me expand it to make my point. You want to drill four holes straight so mark four points on a paper and make a copy of the same paper (i.e. now. two copies)

paste one paper on one side of the peg box and other opposite side of the box. This will give you two points of a straight line (in space). Now your drill

through one side to the other side (passing these two points) . Repeat the process you will get other holes. The four holes will be as straight as good as your paper. Do you think you need to tell the people all this

instruction? Of course. not. Just common sense. Bad advice if you do.

[~ Ben Conover]

I see that Hargrave and other 'copyists' sometimes use peghole bushings to make for the old look.

That is something I rather not do since the bushings can come unstuck and later need replacement.

Although I have bushed holes on old violins I'm not sure how long bushings last.

Since they are made usually of boxwood, do they wear more quickly than normal maple pegholes ?

If the holes suffer Bush fatigue, is there an Obama / Mc Cain repair procedure will work ?

Cheers.

[Jerry Lynn]

I see that Hargrave and other 'copyists' sometimes use peghole bushings to make for the old look.

That is something I rather not do since the bushings can come unstuck and later need replacement.

Although I have bushed holes on old violins I'm not sure how long bushings last.

Since they are made usually of boxwood, do they wear more quickly than normal maple pegholes ?

If the holes suffer Bush fatigue, is there an Obama / Mc Cain repair procedure will work ?

Cheers.

HA! funny Ben.

Anyhow, in my opinion a properly executed endgrain bushing can last a very long time, if it is being used to move a hole. If the intent is to place the peg back in the exact same spot I feel that spirals are the way to go. A hollowd out boxwood (or maple) bushing isn't very strong. I'd be more worried about them crumbling with use rather than spinning free. I think Oded had argued something similar in the last thread that came by on pegbox repair.

[David Burgess]

If the holes suffer Bush fatigue, is there an Obama / Mc Cain repair procedure will work ?

Cheers.

No fair makin' fun of our presidential race.

It's the best entertainment we have aside from the Miss America pageant.

[MeyerFittings]

No fair makin' fun of our presidential race.

It's the best entertainment we have aside from the Miss America pageant.

Don't go making fun of beauty pageants. They seem to be the breeding ground for future world leaders-- we may wind up with Miss Alaska.

[Ken Pollard]

I see that Hargrave and other 'copyists' sometimes use peghole bushings to make for the old look.

That is something I rather not do since the bushings can come unstuck and later need replacement.

Although I have bushed holes on old violins I'm not sure how long bushings last.

Since they are made usually of boxwood, do they wear more quickly than normal maple pegholes ?

If the holes suffer Bush fatigue, is there an Obama / Mc Cain repair procedure will work ?

Cheers.

Spiral bushings are stronger, as well as trendier, but boxwood bushings have certainly been useful for the past couple of centuries. I've seen boxwood bushings that are at least decades old, still holding. When I look at photos of classic instruments, I see multiple bushings, apparently holding up.

I don't see any reason why a bushing, boxwood or spiral, should come loose any faster than, say, a centerseam or neck joint. By far, most of the pressure on the bushing is outward, not rotational; perhaps in the case of a stuck peg, the story would be different. If a bushing fails, it should fail fairly quickly, and would indicate bad wood or bad worksmanship. I've certainly been guilty of the latter, but have learned to be careful with grain direction.

Can't think of any beauty pageant references, but this is one 'hole that's suffering Bush fatigue.

Cheers,

Ken