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Cornerless finished


Sharron

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The measurements are over the arch are 116 at narrowest point and 140 against the bridge (fingerboard side) if that helps with judgement.

I also think it would depend on how angled you held the fiddle.

I only play irish trad and am self taught, that is why I ask the opinions of other players which I pounce on as soon as I see them for opinions.

The ones I make are only for my enjoyment and are not for sale anyway.

I guess I am lucky that I only have myself to please but I still want to make acceptable playing/looking instruments that others would want to have.

Thanks and I will see what the next 2 days of others playing say about your concerns.

Thanks for the link to the Strad.........I am pleased I didn't look at it before I made mine as it doesn't appeal to me at all.

Apologies to Mr Strad.

Sharron

There's no reason to understate what you've done. You've made a really nice instrument. Checking with serious players to see what works for them is a good idea, and then tweaking your violin accordingly. I hope you don't make violins just for yourself. That would be a waste of talent.

The reason I brought the "Guitar Strad" up was not as a model of aesthetics, but how the issue of giving the bow close access to the bridge on the E string might be dealt with.

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There's no reason to understate what you've done. You've made a really nice instrument. Checking with serious players to see what works for them is a good idea, and then tweaking your violin accordingly. I hope you don't make violins just for yourself. That would be a waste of talent.

I don't like pressure.

Keeping them just for me is fine.

There are plenty people out there making really fine instruments, I am no competition for them :)

But.....I do want to make something someone would want to own and play........there is a name for that but it escapes me. :)

I have started a normal 4 cornered violin and don't so far plan on another cornerless, but who knows?

At least most of the parameters are set with normal patterns to follow.

Gosh.....do I get to break the mould (figuratively speaking) :)

Sharron......appreciating your comments.

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Jacob,

I have already done 3 with corners.

Hoping to get the 4 corners better this time.......stand by.

Sharron

Sharron,

You know, you could always just "ease" into this whole corner thing - first a 1-cornered violin, then 2-cornered...then 3-cornered...before you tackle the entire 4-cornered affair. :)

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So much for my creative idea then... :)

BTW, that scroll is one mighty cool design, I like it a lot.

I will see how this next cornered one goes........but you never know which way I might go.

Top corners or bottom corners or 1 x top and 1x bottom or 2 at the top or 2 at the bottom

or asymmetric corners.

As for scrolls....yikes :)

Oh Jacob, you are making me think......not a good idea :)

Sharron

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What? Don't you like the scroll? Why? Can I have it then?

About thinking - I see you are skipping the idea of 1 corner or 3 corners entirely... :)

I think I would do them in pairs :)

The scroll was an accident, I snapped a bit off and had to do it that way or else scrap it.

Glad it worked and you like it :)

I like the scroll, but I also fancied an open pegbox too.

A bit worried about weakening though.

One BIG advantage is that it is just so easy to hang up.......hook straight through the scroll and voila!

Sharron

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Oh, I think I get what you mean - you don't like carving scrolls?

I love it carving scrolls. How about you and I team up - I make the scrolls, you make the rest (corners optional, price quoted per corner).

Actually I don't like carving scrolls Jacob.

Too fiddly for me and I have trouble getting my head around the 3d image to come from a block.

I even printed out Manfio's tutorial and opened it up in front of me this time.

Still went wrong........must be my tools eh :) couldn't be me now could it? :)

My last normal scroll I actually like.

I just need to do a few more B)

So once we sort some method of virtual transport you're ON :)

Sharron

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Sharron, the cornerless viola I started now has top and bottom blocks on the form,

and I used mini blocks like you mentioned, to fill in the corners of the form, which later will be removed.

Is that how you did yours ?

I have also elected to do a carved head in plain maple which I will splice onto a flamed pegbox.

My most wacky idea so far is do do a parrot head.........since lions heads are over done and

carving pirate faces is kinda kitsch and probably bloody difficult to do very well.

Regarding playing the E string and G string of your violin.

If you can hit the strings with some room to spare, then that's fine.

The issue I find is clearance for the bowing hand, but I hope your violin will be OK.

Ski, thanks for the link, the subtle curves are basically what I am trying to use now in my cornerless viola.

I see that the waist is quite tight so I'll adjust the drawing I had made for my viola, whose waist is oversize.

Also, I'm gonna set the f's wider too, since that naive wide eyed look seems to suit the guitar shape well.

Cheers.

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Sharron, I doubt that the back of the pegbox adds any structural strength, so an open pegbox might work. Perhaps a bit of lateral stability for the walls - in which case one can leave a connecting section between the D- and E-holes. Another "funky" idea might be to have single instead of double fluting over the scroll - some Brescian makers used to do this.

Some old Bohemian violins have a hole at the back of the pegbox - probably to help getting the A-string round the peg (just guessing here) - there is a photo of one like that in one of the Strobel books.

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Hi Ben,

My blocks were trimmed down so that they fitted in with the linings rather than being removed.

It meant that there was a little more glueing integrity as the cross grain on the spruce could still contact the plates.

So I treat them as blocks, but just trimmed back flush to the linings.

I love unusual carved heads. I liked the look of the ones that were posted of Lukas Wronski and his indian ones.

I have just had a go bowing right up against the bridge on g and e strings until I was playing just at the frog (I never go there) and had about 1 inch free space below the bow.

I wouldn't play there normally anyway, so for me it is okay, but I will get others tonight and tomorrow to try it.

I am really pleased that Ski mentioned this as it wasn't something that I would have even considered as a possible problem to avoid, I was more influenced by how it looked to me.

Have you carved heads before Ben?

Sharron

Sharron, the cornerless viola I started now has top and bottom blocks on the form,

and I used mini blocks like you mentioned, to fill in the corners of the form, which later will be removed.

Is that how you did yours ?

I have also elected to do a carved head in plain maple which I will splice onto a flamed pegbox.

My most wacky idea so far is do do a parrot head.........since lions heads are over done and

carving pirate faces is kinda kitsch and probably bloody difficult to do very well.

Regarding playing the E string and G string of your violin.

If you can hit the strings with some room to spare, then that's fine.

The issue I find is clearance for the bowing hand, but I hope your violin will be OK.

Ski, thanks for the link, the subtle curves are basically what I am trying to use now in my cornerless viola.

I see that the waist is quite tight so I'll adjust the drawing I had made for my viola, whose waist is oversize.

Also, I'm gonna set the f's wider too, since that naive wide eyed look seems to suit the guitar shape well.

Cheers.

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Sharron, I doubt that the back of the pegbox adds any structural strength, so an open pegbox might work. Perhaps a bit of lateral stability for the walls - in which case one can leave a connecting section between the D- and E-holes. Another "funky" idea might be to have single instead of double fluting over the scroll - some Brescian makers used to do this.

Some old Bohemian violins have a hole at the back of the pegbox - probably to help getting the A-string round the peg (just guessing here) - there is a photo of one like that in one of the Strobel books.

Jacob, I haven't got the Strobel books, only the measurement one of his.

That was what put me off initially....making a link between the two walls look nice.

I have seen a few open peg boxes but they didn't appeal visually, they just looked like a piece had been cut out.

I would like to have something visually attractive, stable and darn useful for the *a* peg. Maybe a series of small interlinking circles or something like a chain effect?

I also haven't seen much in the way of single fluting, you can tell I am just a babe in arms can't you :)

Now I am thinking of doing a different scroll on my next one Jacob.

You really like stirring me up don't you :)

Sharron

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Sharron,

Thanks, I did my mini blocks the same way it seems, I trimed them down so I can get both sets of linings in.

I'm really looking forward to having no corners to purfle !!

I have never carved anything but scrolls, and some other non-violin related stuff in various weird woods like ebony and yew.

I'm having a look to see about carving techniques and projects I might learn from.

Jacob, the gratuitious 'A string hole' that Strobel shows is perhaps an oddity rather than a desireable feature.

Those holes are sometimes made by people messing up the drilling out of the pegbox stage.

The single fluting works well but I think I'll try soemthing less gothic.

I see that the Guitar Strad has a very different outline than the rest of his stuff, I wonder what the widths are....

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Sharron, have a look at this maker's work:

http://www.rabutviolins.com/gallery.htm

Look at his version of Brescian viola scrolls for single fluting, as well as "Special Projects".

Jacob you are doing it again :)

I love the single fluting, it looks very understated but *classy*.

I like the open pegbox but not the top of the scroll.

I understand the concept but it isn't for me, it looks like it could be easily damaged.

I think the single fluting will definitely be something I will look at doing though, so thanks for that Jacob.

Sharron

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Good for you making a cornerless. As an owner of three cornerless instruments I can vouch for their great tone and robustness.

One myth about cornerless violins is that without the corners they are not so strong somehow. This really isn't the case and just handling one you get a feel of just how sturdy they are.

When you've lived with cornerless for years the regular shape actually starts to look odd!

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Good for you making a cornerless. As an owner of three cornerless instruments I can vouch for their great tone and robustness.

One myth about cornerless violins is that without the corners they are not so strong somehow. This really isn't the case and just handling one you get a feel of just how sturdy they are.

When you've lived with cornerless for years the regular shape actually starts to look odd!

Could you tell me what you have and why you chose it.

I am interested in the deviation from the norm.

Not many people like cornerless.

Did you have *normal* before you went cornerless?

Sharron

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This is a comment from a player.

Can the player avoid hitting the treble edge with the bow hair when playing close to the bridge on the E string? It looks like the shape of the middle treble bout forces the player to play with the bow toward the fingerboard, where dynamics would be softer and avoid playing close to the bridge where the big sound can be drawn. I guess the test will be to have a player play it who likes to play loud.

A quick reply for skiingfiddler re - bowing near the bridge.

I have had 4 players, 3 actively classically involved, play this cornerless violin/fiddle.

I have asked them your question and they have played at the bridge across all strings and not had any problem.

They even had another player watching to see how close they got.

I suppose the acid test would be if there was any rosin left on the overhangs.

There is none :)

They did have a problem handing it back to me..... :)

Thanks again for bringing this question up.

Sharron

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A quick reply for skiingfiddler re - bowing near the bridge.

I have had 4 players, 3 actively classically involved, play this cornerless violin/fiddle.

I have asked them your question and they have played at the bridge across all strings and not had any problem.

They even had another player watching to see how close they got.

I suppose the acid test would be if there was any rosin left on the overhangs.

There is none :)

They did have a problem handing it back to me..... :)

Thanks again for bringing this question up.

Sharron

I'm glad it worked out. Thanks for the update.

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