Any idea who the maker is?

[Jeny Mahon]

According to his reply to a bidder's statement that they had a fiddle "just like it" and Beare said it was a Fiorini, the seller said only NY experts had looked at it so far.

Just curious, because if I could have bought a $40K fiddle for $9K and missed out, I will puke.

Modern Italian Ebay fiddle

[RWOlson]

If somebody could help me out here- I just don't get it. I see that he has a fancy Musafia case, and has perhaps Bois d'Harmonie tailpieces. But- There is no wear on this instrument, and the varnish looks like that hard, glossy type that factories use because high school students like their violins to look shiny. Am I not looking at a $500 Chinese instrument, or a Roman Teller student model? My eye is not trained. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[MANFIO]

It looks like a new instrument to my humble eyes....

Notice that the description, photos and presentation of the instrument was made by a professional that, for some reason, ommited photos of the scroll in side view (all pics are a bit skewed, and that makes difficult to study the scroll). It shows no wear due to playing and the varnish on the peghole bushings seems to see the same applied on the whole instrument, that may point out to the fact that the pegholes where bushed prior to varnishing.

The case (that may be a replica) and the fittings (that may be also a replica) are there to impress bidder that will think: "If this violin are in this posh case with these posh fittings it's because it's a posh violin..."

And why a professional (with many contacts in the musical and lutherie world) would sell such a precious instrument on ebay for such a low price?

[andrew weinstein]

I'd rather have the 9k

[troutabout]

Looks like a new 'replica' and I have to wonder why there's no wear on the FB since 1942 date of mfg. Neck finish shows no wear in the pictures, corners are new condition, no scroll wear ? Unless it was abducted by aliens and recently returned it should show wear somewhere.

[MANFIO]

Yes, I'd rather have the 9K too, at least I would know they were made in the USA...

[bean_fidhleir]

Not only does it have "magpie varnish", it looks gritty in the top photo, as though dust got embedded in it.

And does any top-drawer maker do corners like those?

[SakamotoRyoma]

I've bought a bow from him, 3 years ago. He is friendly, because I have paid him.

Having been watching him, I only can tell he has great talent on selling a bow or violin of uncertain origin. He describes his item too professionally so people easily trust him.

The violin looks good to my eye. The top wood looks good, and the back is rather plain. I cannot see the scroll well, but f hole looks show not so good style.

It could be an italian violin or anything else. But it looks different from most chinese factory fiddles. Better than that.

But I would like to have 9,000 instead of this violin.

P.S. I'm sure his violin case is genuine Musafia. I asked him to sell it to me, but he refused.

[Michael K.]

There is no wear on this instrument, and the varnish looks like that hard, glossy type that factories use because high school students like their violins to look shiny.

shows no wear in the pictures, corners are new condition, no scroll wear ? Unless it was abducted by aliens and recently returned it should show wear somewhere.

So your opinions are the same if this kind of Violins shows up on ebay with a bombing italian label?

Here is a Violin """"""""by"""""" Hannibal Fagnola 1911. I have seen about 5 Fagnolas in my hand in that "new" condition.

Identify Violins by photos is allways a speculation.

[knowhow]

Hello,

This is very interesting violin, but all described there as history is manipulation and lie.

The violin was offered on Ebay and sold some weeks before . See here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...O:IT&ih=002

After it seems all fittings changed, the violin cleaned ( may be some colorless coat) and sold again .

However, this is the same instrument .

Sorry for the information !

[SakamotoRyoma]

Great!! He has the talent!!

[Michael K.]

This is intersting! The violin was open! Qustion why?

[bean_fidhleir]

This is intersting! The violin was open! Qustion why?

Because the counterfeiter hadn't put the top on yet?

[pigcat]

$9100 - $2400 = $6700

[knowhow]

So your opinions are the same if this kind of Violins shows up on ebay with a bombing italian label?

Here is a Violin """"""""by"""""" Hannibal Fagnola 1911. I have seen about 5 Fagnolas in my hand in that "new" condition.

Identify Violins by photos is allways a speculation.

This is right, nice one piece back Fagnola passed in my hands some years before, with all papers and was like new. It was 100% original Fagnola with all original papers. But how of this instruments are made of Fagnola only the Lord knows this. We know in his best years like maker Fagnola ordered instruments on the white in Germany . And this happens the same in the moment and will happen till the customers value the instruments by the origin !!!

[Janito]

Awesome detective work.

Dhowen10 has been caught with his pants down.

Well done Knowhow!

-----------------------

Once you catch a porky, you begin to doubt the whole background of the seller; and I did so want to believe it.

[MANFIO]

Some years ago we would have more faked old violins, that is, fake old classic violins.

Now the trend seems to be twards Modern Italians, and these are no more old violins with fake labels, but new violins with fake labels.

[wengs]

I have only just realised what this thread is about and have something of interest to add.

The winner of this auction emailed me noting that I was the winner of the previous auction from this seller informing me of a potential scam.

The instrument I won appears if I'm not mistaken in the background of the photos of this instrument. It is a copy in the late del Gesu style (flared handle bar, protruding eyes type of scroll with tool marks left on purpose to mimic the "rough handiwork" style). It looked like reasonable craftsmenship and I won the bidding at @$10,000.00. Within hours I even had under bidders email me offering me more than that to buy it off me!

When I communicated with him I talked about his experience of modern italians in general and discussed in more detail the sound of the violin I had won compared to a Sesto Rocchi which I owned one (it too was in mint condition like the Fagnola above, bought directly from the Rocchi family and additionally authenticated by Bruce Carlson, who recognised it as a Rocchi even before it was fully uncovered in the case!).

In the ensuing discussion of the playing characteristics, he appeared to be knowlegeable and discussed modern italians as well as his supposed Rocca and Borman instruments quite sensibly.

It interests me to see that some of the things we discussed seems to have been incorporated into this instrument's sales pitch!

After a couple of weeks of him telling me he has been trying to get quotes for shipping to Australia (where I am) including the purchase of a case to protect the violin, he suddenly informed me that he noticed a hairline crack under the tail piece and following a second opinion from his luthier who told him the violin needed to be opened up etc. it resulted in his asking me to mutually agree to termination of the transaction (to avoid eBay charges). He reminded me to leave some feedback which I did and I mentioned he was a good communicator and that I had no problems dealing with him even though no money chenged hands eventually.

[MANFIO]

Wow!!! And the "good comunicator" got a good feedback on a 10K sale that never existed!!!

[pigcat]

wengs, you should feel lucky that your 10k didn't flush down into the toilet bowl!

A scam is a scam, it's just that he manage to cover his ass. I wouldn't hesitate to close the listing webpage immediate knowing all the history are fake and bullshits - if he's being honest, why all these? He can just simply said he got it off ebay and discover it's a gem or something - being an honest seller doesn't need fancy photos and bullshits, Jessy (pahdah_hound) is the best example.

Phew!

[MANFIO]

Yes wengs, you are a lucky guy indeed!!!

[Janito]

I had read the feedback on the $10K violin before the reply by Wengs.

To my eyes, the feedback left for Dhowen10 appears almost as inaccurate a reflection of what transpired in that particular interaction as is Dhowen10's description in the $9K violin listing.

"Transaction cancelled by mutual agreement" might have been more valuable to potential future bidders.

------------

Oh, and DHowen10 left the following Ebay feedback for the 'non-buyer' of the $10K violin:

"I wish all ebay members were like you. Trustworthy buyer. Thank you!"

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Folie a deux??

[iloveviolin]

Hi guys, good to be here. I am the buyer of the violin mentioned here. I'm sorry I could not disclose more information now as further investigations are going on. The violin is still on my hand, and full refund from the seller dhowen10 is pending. This is a completely scam, too many interesting stories behind this transaction.

[MANFIO]

I hope you will get your money back!

[andrew weinstein]

Identify Violins by photos is allways a speculation.

If this is true( and I believe it is), then inherently buying from photos is also speculation.

As for the Fagnola, I can believe that it's right, even if I wouldn't buy it based on that one photo. Just as there exist some mint examples of makers, there are also clever copies that would be difficult to discern from the original in a photo.That is one reason some real wear is preferable, it's actually harder to get the wear right than the checklist of details that go into a maker's style