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What fraction is this violin?

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I have a fraction size violin with 320 mm in length. What fraction is this violin?

In my reference document, it shows 1/2 is 300 mm. And 3/4 is 330 mm. Is there such size as 5/8?

Should I consider this violin as a very big 1/2? or a small 3/4?

Thanks.

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"Should I consider this violin as a very big 1/2? or a small 3/4?"

Yes. Take your pick. Violins do not always conform to what are considered to be standard sizes.

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I would call it a half size, that way the kid doesn't out grow it so fast. Also, if you call it a 3/4 it's a bigger jump when moving up to full size. Cheers,

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"I would call it a half size, that way the kid doesn't out grow it so fast."

This reminds me of the story Mittenwalder Hans Nebel told about his daughter's violin lessons. Her teacher told him that she had outgrown her 1/16 size violin and should move up to a 1/10 size, as she was not yet big enough to play a 1/8. Hans was skeptical. He wasn't sure what a 1/10 size violin was, but he knew such a thing was never made in Mittenwald. He told the teacher that he was unable to provide her with a 1/10 so she would have to discontinue lessons until she had grown enough to be able to play a 1/8 size. Amazingly, the very next week the teacher informed him that his daughter had undergone a sudden growth spurt and could now play a 1/8.

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I must say this fraction-size thing with string instruments puzzles me.

I don't see a lot of 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 size pianos. Come to think of it, no woodwind or brass come to mind either. I do however see very competent 6-year old pianists play on 4/4 size pianos - in fact, so did I at that age, although the matter of my degree of competence is another issue.

The violin in Salzburg which is described as "Mozart's child's violin" has the same body-length as the Amati violino piccolo at the National Music Museum (265mm I think). What other sizes of small violins are known to have existed? And when did this thing with all the fraction sizes we currently have start?

I'm currently busy making a 3/4 size violin (at my 4/4 price) for a customer's daughter. They bought a bench-made 1/2 size from me two years ago at the price of what I charged for full-size back then. They've already booked the 4/4 to be ready in two years' time. I guess if I had many customers like that I could easily become convinced of the need for all these fraction sizes...

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I don't see a lot of 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 size pianos. Come to think of it, no woodwind or brass come to mind either.

There are flutes designed for kids, and apparently for the same reasons as small violins. :)

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I must say this fraction-size thing with string instruments puzzles me.

I don't see a lot of 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 size pianos. Come to think of it, no woodwind or brass come to mind either. I do however see very competent 6-year old pianists play on 4/4 size pianos - in fact, so did I at that age, although the matter of my degree of competence is another issue.

The violin in Salzburg which is described as "Mozart's child's violin" has the same body-length as the Amati violino piccolo at the National Music Museum (265mm I think). What other sizes of small violins are known to have existed? And when did this thing with all the fraction sizes we currently have start?

I'm currently busy making a 3/4 size violin (at my 4/4 price) for a customer's daughter. They bought a bench-made 1/2 size from me two years ago at the price of what I charged for full-size back then. They've already booked the 4/4 to be ready in two years' time. I guess if I had many customers like that I could easily become convinced of the need for all these fraction sizes...

There is a 1/2 size Lorenzo Storioni at National Music Museum as well. I had the opportunity to see these instruments in 2001. It has the back length at 299.4mm.

Teeny Storioni

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Hi

I started making a tiny vln recently, 1/8th and it´s been good fun so far.

While planning it I searched through old MN threads and found some good info, Michael Darnton mentioned that there is a way for calculating the sizes, multiplying 4/4 size by 0,925 makes 3/4 size and same for next sizes, if thats any help...

One tiny question I have myself, too short to start a new thread: does anyone have a 1/8 size bridge blank kicking around and could be giving me measurements for feet width and average blank hight???

cheers

Martina

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Hi all,

I'd really like to get to the bottom of this from a historical perspective.

To "fine-tune" my question - it seems to me that, at least up to Mozart's time, there was a "child's violin" of some sort, ranging from about 265mm to about 300mm. Smaller than that, nothing (apart from perhaps an extreme oddity or aberration here and there), and after that, it's full-size (somewhere between 345 in extreme cases, up to 360mm+).

So, where and when did this modern fixation with sizes from 1/16 to full-size originate?

If we have to believe what modern teachers tell us, by rights it wouldn't have been possible to acquire violin-playing skills in the past without being severely hampered by the unavailability of all the various sizes. But it doesn't seem to have slowed people down all that much back then - amongst others Corelli, Bach, Tartini, Pugnani, Mozart, Viotti and many others up to 1800, and during the 1800's Spohr, Paganini, Vieuxtempts, Wieniawski.

And my question about other instruments remains - how many different sizes of kids' flutes are there?

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Martina,

Measuremnets acording to Stroebel.

Violin 1/8th sizes.

String length, Nominal 235mm

Bridge Black Width at Feet 29

Bridge thcikness at feet 3

Sound post diameter 4

Bar length 198

Bar width 3.9

Bar height at bridge 8.6

String 1-4 spacing at Bridge 24

String spacing 1-4 at nut 12

String 1 FB clearance 2.5

String 4 FB clearance 3.9

FB height projected to bridge 20

FB length 195

Pegbox to peg thumpiece 11

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Martina,

Measuremnets acording to Stroebel.

Violin 1/8th sizes.

String length, Nominal 235mm

Bridge Black Width at Feet 29

Bridge thcikness at feet 3

Sound post diameter 4

Bar length 198

Bar width 3.9

Bar height at bridge 8.6

String 1-4 spacing at Bridge 24

String spacing 1-4 at nut 12

String 1 FB clearance 2.5

String 4 FB clearance 3.9

FB height projected to bridge 20

FB length 195

Pegbox to peg thumpiece 11

Thanks a lot Ben, very helpful!

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Pleasure, I double checked them and they look ok.

I also like the list of measurements from Peter Paul Prier, which you can print straight form his website.

Jacob, I think the small violins were called treble violins, originally played in groups alongside enormous 18 and 19 inch violas, before the established violin length became popular.

See the Strad article ''violas old and new'' for Dilworth's proper explanation.

Cheers.

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Jacob, I think the small violins were called treble violins, originally played in groups alongside enormous 18 and 19 inch violas, before the established violin length became popular.

Cheers.

At present my concern is with tracking and tracking the "notion" of fraction-sized violins for pedagogical purposes.

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If we have to believe what modern teachers tell us, by rights it wouldn't have been possible to acquire violin-playing skills in the past without being severely hampered by the unavailability of all the various sizes. But it doesn't seem to have slowed people down all that much back then - amongst others Corelli, Bach, Tartini, Pugnani, Mozart, Viotti and many others up to 1800, and during the 1800's Spohr, Paganini, Vieuxtempts, Wieniawski.

Paganini learned on a full size violin from age six on if i remember correctly.

his father was a violin dealer (and a gambler) who used to beat him up if Paganini´s playing did not meet his expectations - an early "Wunderkind".

later on when he had a son himself Paganini did not allow his son to ever touch a violin...

there was a recent documentary about him on ARTE. very interesting.

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Pleasure, I double checked them and they look ok.

I also like the list of measurements from Peter Paul Prier, which you can print straight form his website.

Ben,

I can't seem to find the list of measurement on the website!! If it's legal, could you post it here please?

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