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MANFIO

Carlo Giuseppe Oddone violin... on ebay!!

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Carlo Giuseppe Oddone is a big name among the Piemontese makers. I had this one

in my hands some weeks ago:

And...

Please say some more regarding the "ascribed to"

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To me it's a fake, but I'm not willing to do the details, I fear that the fakers may use this information to make a better product!!!

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Interesting...! ...this is actually the second seller offering this violin on eBay. It's been a while and the violin was relisted two or three times, one day it was gone with one bid on it (must have been fine-string-instrument). The price was around the same as it is offered for now as far as I remember. I was interested as well. Everything seemed true and reasonable - except for the scroll which looked unreal on the pictures.

Anne

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Welcome to the new Website "rottenebayviolinsellers.com!

I am wondering why this seller show no photos from the Brand-marks and label. In my opinion is absolute not by Oddone, or other Torino makers. Violin has not the age, wear is not natural, it was rubbed away by the maker a.s.o. Fake Hamma certificates comes up in the 80`s hundred times after the close of this company.

I can tell more details, but I am in the same opinion as Manfio

I am sure nobody buys. (not for this price)

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Welcome to the new Website "rottenebayviolinsellers.com!

I am wondering why this seller show no photos from the Brand-marks and label. In my opinion is absolute not by Oddone, or other Torino makers. Violin has not the age, wear is not natural, it was rubbed away by the maker a.s.o. Fake Hamma certificates comes up in the 80`s hundred times after the close of this company.

I can tell more details, but I am in the same opinion as Manfio

I am sure nobody buys. (not for this price)

I wouldnt have expected anything else from Cellodoc aka Thorsten Theis.Ive seen lots of these fake or stolen Hamma certificates ,these German sellers went through a period of using lots of them on ebay particularly from the Reichshof area.There were also many instruments going through the big auction houses with those and with certificates by another maker Wolfgang Uebel of Celle(he was a viol and period instrument maker ,i wouldnt have called him an expert in Modern Italian instruments).

Theis was trying to sell a fake Alf violin a couple of years ago and refused to be persuaded otherwise,despite knowing it was fake.

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Theis was trying to sell a fake Alf violin a couple of years ago and refused to be persuaded otherwise,despite knowing it was fake.

I wonder why one would stupid enough to fake a LIVING maker's work. :)

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Eric Blot mentions that many modern Italians were faked in Italy when they were alive, and that more than 100 years ago, it's not a new thing.

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Welcome to the new Website "rottenebayviolinsellers.com!

I am wondering why this seller show no photos from the Brand-marks and label. In my opinion is absolute not by Oddone, or other Torino makers. Violin has not the age, wear is not natural, it was rubbed away by the maker a.s.o. Fake Hamma certificates comes up in the 80`s hundred times after the close of this company.

I can tell more details, but I am in the same opinion as Manfio

I am sure nobody buys. (not for this price)

Wow.. He just added new photos of brandmarks and label. :)

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Eric Blot mentions that many modern Italians were faked in Italy when they were alive, and that more than 100 years ago, it's not a new thing.

No big deal when it was 100 years ago, and probably the maker will not find out if the violin are sold on countries far away from Italy. However we have internet today so news and information will be spreaded off very quickly. :)

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Wow.. He just added new photos of brandmarks and label.

Maybe he follow this Discussion!

Here are photos to compare label and brandmark.

Brandmark is good wow! The "C" is not the same and the curve of "Torino".

But Violin on ebay was played maybe 5 Minutes in her life. The edges shows nothing of Oxidation.

I know Oddones from 1922 carry no. 174 and no. 177, and one from 1926 no. 202

This here have no 144 from 1925!!! :)

Oddo.jpg

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On 31.7.2008 at 10:14 AM, fiddlecollector said:

I wouldnt have expected anything else from Cellodoc aka Thorsten Theis.Ive seen lots of these fake or stolen Hamma certificates ,these German sellers went through a period of using lots of them on ebay particularly from the Reichshof area.There were also many instruments going through the big auction houses with those and with certificates by another maker Wolfgang Uebel of Celle(he was a viol and period instrument maker ,i wouldnt have called him an expert in Modern Italian instruments).

Theis was trying to sell a fake Alf violin a couple of years ago and refused to be persuaded otherwise,despite knowing it was fake.

Hello fiddlecollector, 
I Need your help!
I was getting betrayed by cellodoc with a Fake violin auf now i am in court with him.
I was Search the Internet about him and found your Forum. Could  you Please send me all the Information you have got about him? That would be awesome!!
I Hope to hear from you as soon as possible!!

Kind regards 
Name

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He had a store cupboard of 'Important Guadagnini Cellos'. Although in one case it was an 'important' copy of.... 

As Martin says the feedback is odd. One person tells us how trustworthy the seller is for flogging him an 'important..etc' for a few hundred dollars

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I just saw this Oddone on ebay.   It has the label and production number 106, dated 1916.   It looks like a French violin, rather than an Italian one.   What do you guys think?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OLD-VINTAGE-ANTIQUE-VIOLIN-ITALIAN-LABELED-4-4-SIZE-C-Oddone-Torino-1916-/283016035944?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=t6%252FUWH3Cue1HfIi6PVPxtlJREDU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

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At least two  bidders think this is worth over $2K US. T

This violin sold for $2100 . Selling 'stamped' items seems to pull in enough bidders with visions of authenticity  (and profits!) but perhaps little knowledge.

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One of the Oddones listed on ebay was my listing.  I bought it at a Christie's auction with a certificate/historical record of providence.  I ended up selling it in a private sale.  The buyer brought a friend to the sale who owned an Oddone.  He brought his instrument.  We held them side by side and it was very clear that the Oddone made both instruments.  I think you should expect more of these instruments to appear online, as the auction houses are asking too much to bring them to auction.  There will always be counterfeits, so you have to do your homework before shelling out money.

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On 1/19/2020 at 6:37 PM, MAZ said:

One of the Oddones listed on ebay was my listing.  I bought it at a Christie's auction with a certificate/historical record of providence.  I ended up selling it in a private sale.  The buyer brought a friend to the sale who owned an Oddone.  He brought his instrument.  We held them side by side and it was very clear that the Oddone made both instruments.  I think you should expect more of these instruments to appear online, as the auction houses are asking too much to bring them to auction.  There will always be counterfeits, so you have to do your homework before shelling out money.

Forgive me if I'm out of line, but your story sounds much more like that of someone who bought a dud at auction. 

It's really not my experience that a specialist auction house would get you less money for a well certified Oddone than you would get on Ebay. What was the certificate you bought it with?

I'm also amazed that the deciding factor for a private buyer would be that a friend brought along their Oddone to a "private sale" (is that a concept or an event?) and that the two violins looked the same.

Generally an Oddone is sold with a paper from one of the very few experts in modern Italians who are qualified to sift the wheat from the chaff ... 

 

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I would be surprised if ebay was paying out better than the auction houses on fine instruments. The commission is lower (10% vs 20%) but the vast majority of buyers are looking for a fire sale price on a used item, or a commodity price on a new one. Any buyer who's qualified to buy something rare and expensive, and crazy enough to do so sight unseen, is going to discount a prospective purchase heavily due to the risks involved.

Ebay does get you huge exposure to unqualified buyers, which is good if you want to foist off something of dubious origins on a sucker. In-person transactions help the buyer, but they're risky for the seller due to PayPal policies, unless they take the deal off-market (a policy violation).

I think there may be a legitimate niche for ebay for instruments that are nice but not too valuable, where the auction houses don't have the volume and their transaction costs are too high to handle the business.

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