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How Best To Spend The Money To Stimulate Economy


David Tseng
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In my opinion, if governments were smart, they would shut down imports of any commodities or raw materials that can be produced at home.

If we restricted imports, other countries would do the same to us. I think it's a good idea but, as the video pointed out, our government panders to big corporations who demand open markets for their products (not to mention that trade restrictions would impact all the U.S. corporations who have relocated their factories overseas).

Isn't it ironic that, as this global marketplace really takes off, so does the price of oil on which it all depends.

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It's a little known fact that the cells in a Hybrid vehicle last for a@100,000 - 150,000 miles before requiring replacement. Toyota wants $8000 for the service.

I always thought that if I was to purchase a new vechile it would be a Prius...then I read this article and I'm not so sure anymore.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/e....asp?NewsID=188

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Like I said, technology is a placebo. Consider ethanol, for instance. Even if one ignores all of the petroleum resources required to make the stuff (both on the farm and in the ethanol plant), look at what the prevailing farming practices are doing to the land. This is really the greater tragedy in the story of ethanol and just another classic case of shortsightedness.

There are some lessons that should be learned while young, however one thing to remember is that human nature trumps all. In other words, the actions of others (and of ourselves) do not have to make sense, nor do they need to be logical. We’re not machines, we’re people of free will, and we all make mistakes.

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If we restricted imports, other countries would do the same to us. I think it's a good idea but, as the video pointed out, our government panders to big corporations who demand open markets for their products (not to mention that trade restrictions would impact all the U.S. corporations who have relocated their factories overseas).

Isn't it ironic that, as this global marketplace really takes off, so does the price of oil on which it all depends.

Can a corporation that has it's factories overseas be called a U.S corporation , other than on paper? Why not employ fellow countrymen and put the cashflow back into the country? Where does the money that the factory workers earn get spent? Many of the things we import are junk as one of the other posters here put it. Frivolous unnecessary things . If it came right down to a survival situation, how necessary is the DVD player in the back seat of the SUV? Or an elctric wine corkscrew? Where do we draw the line?

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Like I said, technology is a placebo. Consider ethanol, for instance. Even if one ignores all of the petroleum resources required to make the stuff (both on the farm and in the ethanol plant), look at what the prevailing farming practices are doing to the land.

I have better uses for ethanol than burning it in the tank.

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In keeping with the spirit of "spending the money to 'stimulate' the US economy"....should one buy from the 'Big Box' stores, (in which the money goes out of country).....buy gas, (again, in which the money again goes out of country).....Or how about a new Chinese fiddle....heh.....It's almost impossible to keep the money in the US long enough to help out, without putting it in your pocket and just not spending it.

Maybe I am just not smart enough on macro or micro economics...................

I'll keep looking at this thread to see if someone posts a real good purpose for the money......

E.

I think if you look at the macro side too much it'll drive you crazy; almost everything has an international component these days.

Seriously (as opposed to my 100 cups of coffee suggestion), I got my rebate a couple months ago and am still thinking about what to do with it--I probably should just bank it against retirement, since I'm pessimistic about the economy and think this rebate won't do any good. But regarding keeping it in the U.S. I think that it might be better to spend it on services rather than goods. For instance, a week at fiddle camp, or a bunch of violin lessons came to mind. Or maybe it's time to think about getting that neck reset on my old fiddle done... Actually I'll probably just use it to upgrade some of my computer and music equipment, but I'll try to buy from local shops rather than chains. -Steve

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Guest erich_zann

Ride your bike past the gas stations, past the big box stores, past all the big stores selling useless crap, and visit the local growers mart where you'll find locally grown food, arts and crafts, an amateur musical happening, and the people who made these. Support them.

Here's my current "ride".......(gets gooooooood gas mileage...heh.....)

Seriously though, I bought this one right after the x-mas season, paid a whopping $50 for it, (that's probably about the average fill-up at the pump, huh ?).........

E.

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For those of you who want to go really deep (and have a good laugh, too), listen to this when you have a chance. Again, it is an mp3 file of about 45 minutes length, so again set aside some time. However, it is really, really good and very much worth 45 minutes of our life, and feeds directly into the topic of the discussion.

2008_06_22_Boyd_The_Return.mp3

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When my grandfather passed I inherited his Raleigh bike, the one he used to get around town and now I do the same. This is easy because I live and work in a small town, one I can traverse on my bicycle with a brief (less than 10-minute) ride. However, I sincerely understand that such is not the case with many, which is another symptom of the time in which we live. It is a vicious circle, is it not? But, hope abounds.

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invest in a cannondale super v 700( what i used when i raced) and you wont be sorry, its lighter than most peoples road bikes and also comfortable for around town(dual suspension) and features 24 different speeds for climbing as well as a hed shock that locks while climbing, i went through diablo industrial park on these bikes more times than i can count(serveral people have broken bikes in half on this trail) and it stood up to it, plus if your frame ever bends cannondale will pay whatever your bikes worth at the current time(buy it new and break it a month later its full replacement, a year later probably 200 less) weather your the original owner or not. the super v 2000 known as the raven is the same bike but all carbon fiber, i reccomend these bikes to you because they are accessible for under 600 dollars, while the new frames i have sitting under my bed(3 jeckyll prototypes) are 2500 each, yet perform in my opinion just as well, by the way the bikes i reccomended arent made anymore(now its the jeckyll and the judge for my downhill racing bikes) but search ebay

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For years I've thought that world trade is what destroys the economy and self-sufficiency of most countries. As an example, when you buy 10 million widgets from China, the money leaves the country, strengthening the China economy. It takes jobs and manufacturing away from the American people where the money would be circulating and strengthening the American economy. The claim always is: "We can't produce it here as cheaply due to labour and material costs." Well, what does it cost the economy to send the money out of the country never to come back?

In my opinion, if governments were smart, they would shut down imports of any commodities or raw materials that can be produced at home. Export only what other countries require, and import only what we can't produce here ourselves. There I've said it; and I'm not even from the U.S., I'm in Canada but the same applies here.

Years ago small farming communities on the prairies here were bustling local economies within every community. Farmers would go to the local town to buy fruit, hardware, auto and machinery parts because it was diificult to travel great distances due to the quality of the roads. Sure, the prices may have been somewhat higher than what could be had in the cities, but the money went back into the community. With the advent of better roads, box stores with cheaper prices, better, faster transportation the small town merchants had to close their doors, and many of these communities are all but ghost towns now. Same thing is happening to the entire country, except on a larger scale. Eventually it'll be a ghost country, dead because it didn't want to support itself. There has to be a balance between the consumers and producers within the economy for it to work. Presently there are too many consumers and not enough producers.

So, if you want to know how to spend your money, inject it back into your economy

+++++++++++++++++

It is a simplistic view. Economic is not always a zero sum game. Win-win situations do exist.

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I always thought that if I was to purchase a new vechile it would be a Prius...then I read this article and I'm not so sure anymore.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/e....asp?NewsID=188

Just fyi, that study has been largely debunked: Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

Prius batteries are currently running about $3,000, although the price keeps dropping. My service dept. said there's been some high-mileage Prius (used for taxis, etc) that have gone 300,000+ miles on the original battery. I understand the next generation Prius is going to have lithium ion batteries, which will be smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

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Just fyi, that study has been largely debunked: Prius Versus HUMMER: Exploding the Myth

Prius batteries are currently running about $3,000, although the price keeps dropping. My service dept. said there's been some high-mileage Prius (used for taxis, etc) that have gone 300,000+ miles on the original battery. I understand the next generation Prius is going to have lithium ion batteries, which will be smaller, lighter, and more powerful.

Hi Erika, yes I've read that article as well. I still think it was an interesting study that brought up many issues that I hadn't really considered before.

The link is:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/article/10...loding-the-myth

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+++++++++++++++++

It is a simplistic view. Economic is not always a zero sum game. Win-win situations do exist.

I agree with Yuen.

I think the issue is what it means to "consume" - both as a "consumer in China" and a "consumer in America" what is being produced in which country. America is producing a lot of stuff too - that many people wouldn't immediately stop and think "wow, that's a consumable product even though I don't eat it or touch it with my hands" such as technology. The question is why is our production not being consumed as quickly as we consume the products of other countries.

In other words, I think an entire dimension of the conversation is missing: production of goods moving towards the production of services and technology.

Another issue we have is the concept of what an economy "doing well" looks like. Until today, we believe that the economy will do well only as long as it is expanding and growing. Would a shift away from growth-based economics help all of us by reducing waste and the consumption of goods? Debatable, except by those who can't entertain issues beyond what they have known all their life.

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I find it hard to be enthusiastic about a phenolic printed circuit board sandwich garnished with silicon and solder mask. Technology and services can only do so much; We still need to be as self sufficient as possible.

Anyways, this is getting so far off topic it's bordering bizzare. Sorry David, things got a little over the top for the simple question you presented.

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I find it hard to be enthusiastic about a phenolic printed circuit board sandwich garnished with silicon and solder mask. Technology and services can only do so much; We still need to be as self sufficient as possible.

Anyways, this is getting so far off topic it's bordering bizzare. Sorry David, things got a little over the top for the simple question you presented.

Of course you find it difficult to be enthusiastic about whatever you think I'm talking about. Most people aren't. Interestingly, I think you're probably using American technology to read this message and frequent this board, at least in some bit.

I totally agree that self-sufficency is definately important (which has everything to do with David's original post). However, the meaning of "self sufficiency" has to change things like the market globalized, what some would call "illegal immigration", and unbridled comsumption that redistributes inproportionally the goods across the world - usually based on leisure and not "need". Remember the classic separation of "needs" and "wants"? A sure way to get to American self-sufficiency would facilitated by a clearer distinction between "needs" and "wants" for the average American consumer.

History has shown that isolationism doesn't really work. Then again, what we currently have doesn't work either.

But back to what is important...

Perhaps David could buy decent textbooks on basic Economics, written by those who really are in the "objective know" vs. opinion, for those who desire to help change the American economy? I have a few suggestions.

Think "Small is Beautiful".

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Of course you find it difficult to be enthusiastic about whatever you think I'm talking about. Most people aren't. Interestingly, I think you're probably using American technology to read this message and frequent this board, at least in some bit.

I totally agree that self-sufficency is definately important (which has everything to do with David's original post). However, the meaning of "self sufficiency" has to change things like the market globalized, what some would call "illegal immigration", and unbridled comsumption that redistributes inproportionally the goods across the world - usually based on leisure and not "need". Remember the classic separation of "needs" and "wants"? A sure way to get to American self-sufficiency would facilitated by a clearer distinction between "needs" and "wants" for the average American consumer.

History has shown that isolationism doesn't really work. Then again, what we currently have doesn't work either.

This I agree with. I am involved professionally in the electronics industry and certainly embrace and utilize technology, however I strongly feel tying up the majority of the economy in technology and services would be a big mistake down the road. All civilizations eventually collapse for one reason or another, and the more advanced they are the harder they fall. Homer figured this out back thousands of years ago. When an event like this occurs the only survivors will be the ones who can look after themselves with basic necessities. Cel phones, Xbox games, computers, automobiles , petroloeum and electricity will have very little if anything to do with survival. Of course at this point an economy will cease to exist. Funny that most people don't consider where the food comes from until all the eggs in the proverbial basket are broken.

:) So David, does this help make your decision?

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"Mad Max" - Wow, just hearing the title makes me feel my later teen years again (even though I only saw the movie once, and as best I can recall did not enjoy the flick).

It is all pretty simple really, the heart of the matter is a matter of the heart, the love motivation...a love directed toward one's self, or a love directed toward others. The truth is that we're all created with a void that can only be filled with one thing, unconditional love, which can only be found in one source. We try to fill this peculiar void with just about everything else, and in today's present age those of us in more developed parts of the world do so primarily via acquisition of material goods, but it never works and our satisfaction is temporal (if even that much). Proof of this is as plain as can be...an ongoing, massive swell of consumption, literally running out of control.

I apologize if I've taken this in a different direction than intended, but at the same time it does answer the original question in the most direct way...how to spend the economic stimulus check. I'd have mentioned tools, etc. one could buy, but as a beginner I'm probably not the best one to make such suggestions. But, I'll keep my fingers quiet for now and do my best to not hijack any future threads with my philisophical ramblings. I love it here and there are so many knowledgable people, and I'd like to hang around for a while.

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