Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Before and after repair photos


Ken Pollard
 Share

Recommended Posts

In another thread ("Emotions") there was talk of too much verbiage, not enough photos. Lyndon offered photos of his repair work on a photobucket site, by using his password. I'd like to see the photos, but am reluctant to sign on lest I inadvertently destroy something, so I'll try another approach here.

As far as posting photos, I have been reluctant in part because of my poor photography -- I have a relatively inexpensive digital camera -- and mostly due to the great wood-work I've seen on Maestronet.

But, I have been guilty of attempting humor when not contributing usefulness, so here goes.

I have a flickr account, where I post some snapshots of various instruments that come thru my shop (as well as photos of other various nonsense). It is public, and you can view it at

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23218266@N06/

My username there is Cornbread, beans, and coffee. There is a subset on violins and a subset on banjos if you want to avoid the family-type photos.

I'll try to attach two pertinent photos to this message, a before and after of a repair. This one I mentioned here previously, when the instrument was first in the shop. It is now back in the owner's hands, and she has told me that it is working for her. I neglected to take photos when it was completely strung up.

She tumbled off a stage stair last summer, landing full force on the lower treble bout. It shattered the tob, back, and ribs. This was a challenge to me, in part because the instrument had numerous previously repaired cracks, and most of them were quite visible, including in the damaged area. I wanted the repair to look consistent with the rest of the instrument, and I think to the most part, it came out ok. Could it be better? Of course. I had it in under tension in the shop, just to make sure it didn't explode -- and it didn't and that made me happy.

Anyway, that's my acceptance of the put-up or shut-up challenge.

I enjoy the forum, even the craziness.

Cheers,

Ken

edit: I've tried inserting the fllickr link a couple times, and am still not sure it's working.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope this thread will get going!

I'll add one I have been wanting to put up.

First time doing this type of repair.

It was basically like doing a miniature soundpost patch without the aid of positioning cleats.

It took far too many hours. Any easier way?

blog2sql3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not confident it would have been so good if it weren't for the opaqeness of the varnish. If you look carefully you can see where I had to hide glue edge in areas using a little watercolor paint.

If it had been a clear pristine varnish the job would have been much more difficult.

The Stain I used on this was very dilute potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..anyway looks like orange Koolaid. You put it on very dilute and let sit in the sun to darken. If not dark enough you can repeat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to post one more as I think this is quite interesting. (Then it's someone else's turn! )

Not sure if I posted this before and I'd like to make it a guessing game as to what I used to clean this with before revarnishing.

It's an old French violin but someone had used some chemical or very strong ink to make the fake flame in the ribs. This actually had an etching effect in some areas and went quite deep...so scraping or sanding were not an option.

I used 2 things which would keep a neutral PH balance in the wood but at the same time gave me a gentle abrasive to work with.

What led me to this experiment was that the fake flame had "bleached" out where the players hand comes in contact with the right upper bout.

One other clue is that no strong chemical solvents, bleaches etc... were able to effect this stain or ink in any way.

wgriblogyp7.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have been wondering that question of artificial flame ever since i bought my first bass( a juzek ply) and the neck was sanded smooth but at the heel and towards the scroll was flamed, i thought to myself, this is a miracle, two different species of wood growing in the same tree, what are the odds?(that was a joke)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by: HongDa

potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..

i believe its dichromate, bichromate doesnt exist(as far as i know on the periodic table), elements and compounds that are multi valent have prefixes, mono, di, tri, tetra, penta and so on, just thought id share some geek

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
Jimmy_Hill
quote:


Originally posted by:
HongDa

potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..

i believe its dichromate, bichromate doesnt exist(as far as i know on the periodic table), elements and compounds that are multi valent have prefixes, mono, di, tri, tetra, penta and so on, just thought id share some geek

You are right. I always confuse these. The Weisshar book calls it bichromate but when I look that up in my mini chemical dictionary it refers me to dichromate. Potassium permanganate is the one that will apparently turn an ugly color later on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hongda....very impressive....

regading the finishing blending....

would you describe your method....

very impressive "invisible shoreline"

your color match is perfect as is the "transition"....as there is none....

and no disturbence to the surounding finish

the photo is one that would show any flaws...i see none...

judges?

9.99

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
HongDa

The Stain I used on this was very dilute potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..anyway looks like orange Koolaid. You put it on very dilute and let sit in the sun to darken. If not dark enough you can repeat.


]

Careful with that stuff. It's not good for you. Use gloves.

Very effective color for some applications. My experience is that it can react with compounds in the finish (the color can change in time) and that it tends to send hide glue joints dark.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
Jeffrey Holmes

quote:


Originally posted by:
HongDa

The Stain I used on this was very dilute potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..anyway looks like orange Koolaid. You put it on very dilute and let sit in the sun to darken. If not dark enough you can repeat.

]

Careful with that stuff. It's not good for you. Use gloves.

Very effective color for some applications. My experience is that it can react with compounds in the finish (the color can change in time) and that it tends to send hide glue joints dark.

Thanks Jeffrey, I use it very dilute and with a small touch-up brush. The only time I ever really use it is for corner repairs and some other small repairs. Would tea maybe be a better alternative?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
Jeffrey Holmes

quote:


Originally posted by:
HongDa

The Stain I used on this was very dilute potassium dichromate (bichromate?)..anyway looks like orange Koolaid. You put it on very dilute and let sit in the sun to darken. If not dark enough you can repeat.

]

Careful with that stuff. It's not good for you. Use gloves.

Very effective color for some applications. My experience is that it can react with compounds in the finish (the color can change in time) and that it tends to send hide glue joints dark.

Makes sense that it turns glue dark.Its basically the components of the gelatine/bichromate method of producing a light sensitive film in old photography.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
jezzupe

hongda....very impressive....

regading the finishing blending....

would you describe your method....

very impressive "invisible shoreline"

your color match is perfect as is the "transition"....as there is none....

and no disturbence to the surounding finish

the photo is one that would show any flaws...i see none...

judges?


Hi Jezzupe,

As I said earlier I think it would have been much harder had it been a very clear varnish. In this situation I found it realtively easy to hide and if you look carefully you can see where I hid some of the "shoreline" by using a little opaque water color. Possibly a good job on THIS instrument but probably not good enough for a nice instrument.

Basically I used a small gouge and scraper to prepare the patchbed. Then took a pencil tracing on paper and transferred that to the patch wood. Roughly trimmed and then tediousely chalk fit like a sounpost patch---this took hours!...as I couldn't think of a way to position it exactly the same each time as with temporary cleats. I then glued it using finger clamps and then stained with the potassium dichromate. With that I brush on very dilute and as dry as possible and then put in the sun, UV box or even under an incandecent light for a while...repeating a few times until dark enough. The light makes it oxidize faster.

I think it was good enough for this instrument but I'd need to learn alot more before attmepting it on something nice. For example I used a solid piece of maple whereas I know it would have been more correct to use a bent piece of ribstock---but that would have been extrmely difficult to chalk fit I felt.

I thought the 2nd picture was more interesting myself. No solvent, bleach, peroxide etc.. would do anything to that strong deeply stained in flame.

I finally found that by rotating back and forth between lemon juice (vinegar maybe better) and baking soda and with alot of scrubbing, it gradually disappeared. I found it very interesting that such gentle compounds reacting with each other had cleaning power over strong chemicals that did absolutely nothing.

I feel I'm hogging this thread. Can we see some other pics?!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi HongDa,

No worries about 'hogging' the thread. Both of your repairs are impressive and I'm happy to see them. I'm curious how you thought of alternating the lemon juice & vinegar -- had you used that before?

Of course, I would like to see some other folks' before & after photos as well. I think it's safe to say that the instruments we've shown so far are modest instruments, probably not financially worth the cost of the repair, but which have been great learning experiences. So show us what you've done. We know you're out there!

As to the ribs in my repair, they were fractured. I had to get the back put together so that I knew what the curvature was, then it was basically gluing a crack at a time, reinforced with thin cleats. I did have to make one new lining, but the others had sprung away in one piece.

The top was the worst part. It was down to splinters in some places, as well as having old repair cleats attached to some of the fragments. When she fell, it was with an audience, and folks helped her gather up most of the pieces -- so then it was just something of a jigsaw puzzle to put them back in their proper order.

I did have to add in 2 short (2-3 mm) sections of purfling on the top, and found that actually one of the more frustrating parts. Hard to get the right color. I wish I had your eye for the watercolor.

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was pretty clever, alternating acid and base-- vinegar and soda. It makes sense, I guess,...I imagine that what was happning is the vinegar or lemon juice settles into pores, etc. and then the reaction with the base shoves out whatever is in there with it. (Probably too simplistic, but within the crude limitations of my mind it makes sense.) I'll have to remember that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks hongda....i think it looks very good...if it were mine and i got it back as such, i would have given you a fat tip......for a job well done.....

and i think the only people that complain about pictures are those that are using old systems...

i implore those running "stone age" sytems, like what 10 years old.....to trade in thier obsolete $3500 system for a $350 laptop that will actually make everything work fast....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by:
Taylor's Fine Violins

, as to revarnishing an old french fiddle because you don't like the look of the varnish, well no, that kind of thing(revarnishing) just kind of creeps me out, Lyndon

Hi Taylor,

The fake flame attempt on this instrument luckily stopped on the ribs and the back had been left untouched. So this was more a case of restoring the ribs to their original so that they would match the back once again. I should have pointed out that these fake flames were something not done originally...but later on. Someone probably thought they could get more for it if it had flames.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...