Speaking of Bending Irons...

[C.B.Fiddler]

dZViewItem">Interesting Digital Bending Iron on Ebay

[Andres Sender]

Looks like it was made in 1974.

[Tim McTigue]

Be interesting to see if it gets any bids.

[David Tseng]

If I were buying a new bending iron, I would get one like that. I bought a lot of violin fittings from him.

[davet]

This seems to have a temperature controller on it rather than the rheostat that is used on the Ibex and others that are home made. This would have some advantages but they may not be particularly necessary for this application.

Unfortunately the bending iron profile is not shown which I would think would be more important. In addition, no mention is made of the wattage of the heaters used in the unit.

I've dealt with Dov Schmidt, the seller, in the past and found that he is very helpful and knowledgeable in the violin field.

Added edit - iron profile photo has now been added.

[sonnichs]

Does it measure FFTs while it bends?

Seriously I have had so much trouble with the circa 1900 thermostat

on my new commercially built glue pot, that I ordered a thermistor

 for it . The present thermostat wanders by as much as 20

deg F, just as my 30 year old one from the same vendor

did.

 Perhaps a digital control makes a lot of sense for a bending

iron as well.

FS

[C.B.Fiddler]

He may be reading this - a picture of the head has been added to the listing. It looks great!

He has another less complicated and less expensive looking Iron on his website. I've never seen one like this before - and wish that I had before buying the Ibex:Click here

$119.00

[David Tseng]

I asked him about the profile and dimensions of the aluminum block. It looks pretty good. I am going to get one directly from him and order some violin fittings at the same time.

[C.B.Fiddler]

Are you going to order the digital one or the standard model above? When you receive it, please let us know what you think of it.

[Andres Sender]

Kudos, well done! Finally someone is selling a decent one, and the cheap one can have a proper temp control added to it by the purchaser and the total is still very competitively priced. The shape is a bit eccentric, but infinitely better than the Ibex!

[davet]

The $31 difference between the two models is a cheap price to pay for a temperature controller. The Ibex type control (rheostat type) does not feed back the actual temperature to the control. A temperature controller would have this feedback loop. This probably would be an advantage. However I don't think you have much difference in bending one set of ribs versus the next so once you have determined the right setting on the Ibex type control, you're pretty much done using any type of control. This is just my opinion - I'm not an electrical engineer but I used a number of temperature controllers in chemical engineering research that I did.

David - What dimensions did Dov say the bending iron was? Is it solid aluminum or a cast shell such as the Ibex?

[C.B.Fiddler]

The digital model is actually $199.00 on his website (an $80 difference,) so it may be a good idea to grab the one on sale at ebay, unless you can talk him into selling you one in the future at that price.

[davet]

The next page on his web site shows both the digital ($150) and the manual ($119) models - both for violin and viola. The $199 model on page 1 is also for a cello so it looks to about 6 inches tall. The violin/viola models look to be 3-4 inches tall. The ebay model looks to be the shorter violin/viola model so the starting price at $149 is $1 cheaper than he will sell outright on his web site.

Thanks Andres! On my list of things to do after making violins is learning to read.

[Andres Sender]

Davet - the dimensions are on the auction. The cross section is 80 mm long by 30 mm wide in the center.

Ah never mind about the auction price. $150 for the heat controlled violin model is a great price.

[C.B.Fiddler]

quote:

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Originally posted by: davetOn my list of things to do after making violins is learning to read.

[M_A_T_T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

C.B.Fiddler

---

This shape looks very good. I may get one.

[C.B.Fiddler]

I agree - I wonder if it is solid aluminum or if it is hollow like the Ibex...

[M_A_T_T]

Anyone know if it's solid or cast?

[C.B.Fiddler]

Here is his response. I have sent another message to see if he can find out a little more about whether it is cast or solid:

"Dear c.b.fiddler,

Hi

Cant tell you 100% the answer to all your question, I can tell you its the best tool I ever had, for my violin making

At the moment I have it for violin or for cello only 110V I will have it 220V in about 2-3 weeks.

Dov

- doviol"

[captainhook]

Davet (and others):

The temperature controller's main advantage may simply be quicker heatup. I have one on my home made iron. It supplies full power when first turned on, then cuts back to the appropriate level when the set temperature is reached. It is ready to use within five minutes after turning on.

That controller looks a little outdated, which is probably how he can offer that kind of deal. It should work just as well as any, though. Almost makes me wish I needed one.

[M_A_T_T]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

M_A_T_T

Anyone know if it's solid or cast?

---

I work in a metal shop and asked about solid vs cast. I was told cast heats up very quickly and holds the heat compared to billet aluminum. Based on the size and my experience having one made, I would guess it's cast. It looks taller than the one I had milled from a billet, and the one I had made was pushing the limits of the machine due to the cutter length. Cast would probably be cheaper to have produced anyways.

The main thing I would like to know is whether it's solid or hollow. Solid is desireable.

I thnk whether it is solid or hollow I will be getting the $119 version, as I just do the water test on my iron.

[GMM22]

I am a bit confused about your definitions since cast aluminum is solid, but perhaps you mean cast aluminum vs. other processes like extruded (or your billet?). I have to confess, I could not reason how the thermodynamic properties of cast aluminum vs. other forming processes could be very different, especially if the alloy composition and density were the same. In fact, my intuition was that extruded aluminum could conduct and hold heat better since it is formed under pressure and should have greater density and a molecular alignment that is advantageous for more efficient thermoconductivity.

Being curious, and without doing too much checking, I found one reference at Electronics Cooling, A Magazine Ddicated to Thermal Management in the Electronics Industry. The following is a quote:

Castings

Castings are commonly used as low cost heat sinks integrated into enclosures. Due to cost, castings are limited to high volume production programs that use tens of thousands of parts. Castings typically provide near net-shaped parts that require little or no machining prior to assembly. Traditionally, the thermal conductivity of aluminum casting alloys has been significantly lower than extruded alloys. This, coupled with the potential for air pockets and inclusions in some casting styles, can yield poor thermal designs. [6]

Emphasis mine.

See:

http://electronics-cooling.com...s/2001/2001_feb_a1.php

[GMM22]

There is another aspect in that conductivity and heat holding capacity are two somewhat independent material properties. It is not so simple, but I am confident that the material properties of aluminum in various forms are negligable with respect to the task of forming violin bending irons.

[NewNewbie]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

C.B.Fiddler

Here is his

response. I have sent another message to see if he can find out a

little more about whether it is cast or solid: "Dear c.b.fiddler,

Hi Cant tell you 100% the answer to all your question, I can tell

you its the best tool I ever had, for my violin making At the

moment I have it for violin or for cello only 110V I will have it

220V in about 2-3 weeks. Dov - doviol"

---

Can you ask him how long it takes to get up to working temperature?

[GMM22]

While the element may govern some part of the initial heating time, it is not hard to reason that a fast heating time can also be indicative of a lower overall iron mass. Greater mass is desirable so that only insignificant amounts of heat are taken up by the material being bent, rendering the iron temperature more consistent within a given bending procedure. The time taken to heat should be secondary to having an iron that can hold heat well, i.e., one that is massive and slow to heat.

Upon further thought, I would imagine all commercial irons are cast and then dressed. Given the choice, I think extruded aluminum would be better if only to reduce the chance of inclusions (that could result in cold spots), but again, all such considerations may be negligible for the task of bending violin ribs.