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perfection peg fitting


doublebsguy
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How important is it to use a peg reamer for installing these pegs. at first i thought it was absolutely nes. but in reading the directions it says"the shaft on the smaller end of the peg does not need to contact the sides of the reamed hole on the opposite side of the peg box for proper fit." that sounds to me that the fit isn't as exacting at that end of the peg. and the other side is threaded. in my cheap head i'm wondering if i can use fine sandpaper around a peg to enlarge the hole (it's pretty close already). I know I'm probably wrong but could someone explain why? thanks.this is for a cello by the way.

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You should take your violin to Sam Ash, and have the guy that sets up guitars do this for you. A fret hammer will get the pegs in nice and easy, no sanding!

If you care about your violin at all, I would suggest that you get a reamer. Who knows, perhaps some day you'll want to fit "old school" pegs properly into newly reamed holes, instead of using perfection peg?

I actually have no experience with perfection pegs, but assume that as long as the hole closest to the head of the peg fits properly, the mechanism will turn properly... mechanism won't spin free. It makes sense that it's not important (but would be nice) to have a perfect fit at the tip of the perfection peg tube, since all of the real turning and tuning is happening within a sleeve at the head of the peg.

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You probably can use sandpaper, since perfect roundness of the hole is not essential with Perfections. I have never fitted cello Perfections, but be very careful not to get the holes too large or you'll have to bush them. I've found many violin pegholes to be almost exactly right without reaming, but in a case or two the small hole was too small (steeper taper) so that the Perfection would bind in it, until I used the reamer just on that side. Again, anything you can open that hole with, if needed, will work, but don't overdo it.

One other small point, the threads have a steeper taper than the reamer, so don't be surprised when slight enlargement of the hole has less effect than expected. Good luck.

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I've just finished installing my third set of Perfections in fiddles I own so I'm getting this down to a science.

The first set that I installed on a Chinese Cremona needed no reaming at all. Only one hole was a little tight on the far end of the peg so I used a small rat-tailed file to enlarge it enough to free up the moving end of the peg.

For the second installation, I knew I was going to have to ream the holes as the pegs in my second fiddle were tiny so I invested in a peghole reamer. The distal ends of the Perfections ended up being much looser than they needed to be. I'm not sure how this happened but the Perfections I installed did not match the taper of my reamer. They work fine but there is a visible gap around the small end of each peg.

For my third installation, I thought I was going to be doing some heavy reaming again because the fiddle was fitted with tiny pegs. To my surprise, when I got my new Perfections, I found that they were a new small size and wouldn't require much reaming to fit. After careful installation I'm most pleased with this set. The taper came out right this time and with the threads snug in the peg wall, the little ends are perfectly seated in the other side. Not too tight to sieze and not too loose to have a visible gap. These pegs seem to function much easier in terms of holding tune and not slowly creeping back from a setting like the previous pegs will do on occasion.

I would guess you could use a sandpaper wrapped peg to ream out the holes. If I had thought of it I probably would have tried it myself on the first peg installation. For the amount of reaming I had to do to my second fiddle, I would definitely recommend getting a reamer. For the third fiddle, the reamer was still a necessity because of the precision involved. I'd doubt I could have reasonably controlled the tiny sandpaper wrapped pegs well enough to have consistently fit the pegs as well as a reamer would have. There wasn't much wood to remove, but what was removed was cut far more consistently than I could have done otherwize. The original pegs were fit so tightly, the ends were just barely touching the far side peg wall so I would have had to reduce the peg size even further to allow room for the sandpaper or rig something to enlarge the far-side peghole. With a cello you might not have these issues, doublebsguy.

I'm only familiar with how threads fit in reamer cut holes so I can only recommend that you take it slow and careful as you approach final fit. Your Perfections should screw in and become too tight to turn by hand just as the last visible thread disappears into the peghole. You should be able to tell before you've gone too far how well the taper of your current pegs is going to match the Perfection peg's taper. By adjusting the sandpaper, you should be able to selectively control the removal of wood and thus adjust the taper a little if needed. This will be slower than using a reamer, but since you're only going to do it once..... The likelyhood of you wanting to go back to organic pegs after you've installed Perfections is so remote that it's not worth consideration. Of all the installers I've heard from, nobody has ever wanted to go back to wood pegs.

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If the small end peg hole is large, the G string has the

possibility of jamming into the space, i  suggest sealing up

the G small-side holes if a string can work into the

space. The directions are not very clear, and i made the

thread side peg holes too tight  and had made a lot of

needless work threading them in. No question, they are certainly

worth the effort, but i wish the instructions had a lot more

detail. fred

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"Giggle"

Nice one Lyndon, thanks for todays chuckle.

For me, and maybe for some others, as well, violins represent a

high point of human achievement. They really do.

Even if you don't need a perfect fit to work these pegs, I think on

a violin everything should have to fit perfectly, at least for

aesthetic reasons, if nothing else. I think it's just too slippery

a slope to start saying "close enough" on any thing that goes on a

violin.

I'm not trying to offend any one by saying this, I just feel this

is the way it has to be on any  violin work.

I took a carbon f viola home to look at a while back. And you could

see light through the holes of where the perfection pegs were. I

was honestly offended that anyone could get away with it.

Nothing against the pegs themselves, btw.

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It takes a bit of "perfection" to fit them. I don't like the idea of opening up the holes any more than you need to. They do come in several diameters, and I would recommend getting the smallest size shaft that you can use.

If your hole is not round, and/or too tight, you run the risk of splitting the pegbox.

One-time violin repair doesn't make much sense to me. If your only goal is to save money, then don't do anything. If you really want to learn how to do violin repair, then invest in the tools and the education to do it properly.

You should get much better results by letting a professional do this, and the small fee it will cost you to have it done right will be worth it.

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Good tools and experience (period)

Short-cut, it sometime works, if you are lucky like me. (kidding)

(Seriously) try to ream the peg hole, slighly smaller than it fit "perfectly"

and when you place the "perfect pegs" and use some force to

screw it into place. Use as little glue as possible.

The problem (bad job) is that holes have become too large. Either you need re-do the

whole thing ( expensive bushing) or let it go as it is " imperfect".

To save money, have professionals do it. They do not need to

"bush" the holes. (yes,a reamer is necessary for a good job)

(too much free play is a bad job, because it won't stay in tune for every long)

It is also quite easy to damage the varnish )

If you have the traditional pegs properly installed, then it is better than "perfection pegs".

It works much better because they have no free play. However, Most traditional pegs become smooth, lack of friction after a few years of uses.

You need to have a peg job done too. It seems no easy solutions.

(just a note)

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One thing worries me about these pegs, And yuen reminded me.

Peg hole dimensions change with the climate.

In the winter, they are larger, in the summer, they are smaller.

Humidity changes, essentially.

With conventional pegs, the tapered shafts freely compensate for

this by backing out, or in, when you tune.

But when you glue a shaft in there, as with these pegs, could any

problems arise?

what would happen if you glued them in snug in the winter, when the

holes are larger ?

Does anyone have an opinion on this?

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Darren- i never thought about summer and winter changes, I guess i

was lucky when I installed them in a cello in dead winter,

plus a tight fit. I've had pegs freeze up so tight on inst's

 that hadn't been tuned going from winter to summer (living on

Cape Cod not too far from the ocean) that the pegs had to be tapped

loose. What a difference re that cello- from frozen to slipping

until installing perfection pegs- the owner has no problem tuning-

fred

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The threaded area on a Perfection peg is tapered ---about the same as a wooden peg. I have installed two sets (carefully, and with a reamer) without any glue and have yet to have one slip or "back out".

My personal preference will always be the traditional wooden peg when used with gut or synthetic wound strings, but on a fiddle with steel strings Perfection pegs eliminate the need of fine tuners, --even on the E string. Usually reducing the weight of the tailpiece (e.i.,no tuners) helps tonally. Looks good too !

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