Matthew Hardie Violin ?

[Fiddlefun]

I have a very nice older violin with a label by Matthew Hardie

18??.  I would appreciate any opinions about if it appears to

fit this maker or if it is a copy.  I realize photos alone

will not ID an instrument.  The violin has a repair label

by Gemunder & Son 1912.  It has a neck graft and a

replaced upper block.  The upper block looks newer than the

rest of the violin but looks old enough to fit the 1912 repair

label.  Violin is of very nice quality and excellent tone.

Fully blocked.  Measurements are:  LOB 354mm.  Upper

B 163mm.  Middle B 107mm.  Lower B 202mm.  Rib

height 31.5 all around.  One unique feature is the saddle is

only 25mm long and extends over the rib.  I would appreciate

opinions or even email photos of other known Hardie instruments.

 My email is marcdeb186@verizon.net.  I will try to put

photos on this post but I have not done this before so hope it

works.  Thank you.

[Fiddlefun]

OK, I think maybe I have the photos now?  

[Richf]

Check out pictures of 2 Hardie fiddles in the Photo Archive at tarisio.com . Your instrument doesn't look wildly inconsistent with those examples.

[Ken Pollard]

I like the looks of your violin, Hardie or not. Do you have a photo of the scroll?

Perhaps you've seen this, but in case not, here's a little YouTube video of a current Scottish maker who mentions Hardie and his time in debtor's prison. Something many of us in the trade can relate to, I'm sure.

Cheers,

Ken

[Fiddlefun]

Thank you for the opinions.  I have added two more photos of

the scroll side and back.  The graft is real and the scroll is

certainly hand made.  I do not have access to the Tarisio

archives.  But I have quite a few people who are of the

opinion that it very possibly could be by Hardie.  

[Ken Pollard]

Thank you. I didn't have access to the Tarisio archives either, so am glad you posted these. I have a particular interest in things Scottish. Nice scroll. I like the style of the turns, especially the center. The undercutting of the outer turn, at the pegbox, is striking.

The photos are big enough that I believe I can see the graft line inside the G-peg hole. Necks are grafted for a variety of reasons.

Thanks again. Cool fiddle,

Ken

[Alan_Coggins]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

KenPollard

I have a particular interest in things Scottish.

Ken

---

So do I, Ken... so do I.

Except my things are usually found in a bottle.

[Ken Pollard]

Alan,

I keep a bottle in the shop, should you ever stop by. I do remember your Stad column. Enjoyed a few sips tonight, while rehearsing.

Ken

[Alan_Coggins]

Thanks for the offer Ken - I'll certainly keep that in mind. At the moment I am sipping a Jamesons. The next best option when funds are low.

Cheers!

[James Williams]

You've probably already seen this recent ebay sale for a supposedly Mathew Hardie fiddle. In case you didn't here's the link.

Hardie on ebay

Looks pretty similar to yours to my untrained eye.

[Ken Pollard]

Jamesons is a fine alternative. We were enjoying one of our favorites, Laphroaig, though we are by no means exclusive to that label. Also had some 12-year Balvenie double wood for contrast, and a bottle of Glenmorangie sherry wood hiding in the corner.

I've enjoyed searching up photos of Matthew Hardie violins these past couple of days. They're just striking my fancy right now. This, too, may be redundant, but found a nice set of photos at --

http://www.violins.co.za/violins.htm#0491

It seems to compare favorably, to my untrained eye, to Fiddlefun's photos. From the bio info of Henley, found on

http://www.hersheyviolins.com/news/2006/0223.php

Hardie also enjoyed the bottle, though perhaps a bit too much.

Cheers,

Ken

[doctahg]

A warm, sweet Scottish fiddle and a glass of Laphroaig - now that's a combination I could live with! Over 20 years ago, I had the great fortune to try the 15-year-old stuff, which, as the distillery says, is "Mildly smoky, with sweet, warm undertones - and just a hint of the sea - fulfilling and utterly unforgettable. Made in tiny quantities, it is esteemed and savoured around the world by a fortunate few." I was living temporarily with friends who kept a bottle in their unlocked [!!!] liquor cabinet. I shamelessly plundered it on more than one occasion when they were away from home. Never tasted it since, but it was, as the ad promises, unforgettable. [sigh]

[JPlimpton]

I'm partial to the Laphroaig, as well . . . a welcome accompaniment to any worthwhile endeavour.

[Fiddlefun]

Thank you for the great replies.  Especially the Ebay Hardie.

 I had not seen it.  I think because it is a UK auction,

it would not come up on a search unless I put in the actual auction

number.  Although I'm not a pro either, the Ebay Hardie &

Son violin seems to be strikingly like the Hardie I have.  the

arching,varnish, button, and scroll seem very similar,  But

the length is not.  My violin is much shorter at 354mm.

 The Hardie and son is 365mm.  I have to wonder if the

Ebay measurement is accurate?

As to the Hardie from South Africa.  I had found that one

myself and I've seen many violins like this one.  I can't

believe it is being passed off as anything other than a low

end shop instrument.  Maybe this South Africa violin should be

an individual topic all it's own.  I can't believe that a

maker such as Hardie would have tried to make a violin with an

upper block and neck such as this.  These violins are fairly

common and the ones I've seen are almost identical to this and are

not anything I would consider "good".  I've seen some people

call these Baroque instruments?  From my schooling, this is

not what a baroque violin is.  Any opinions on the South

Africa violin mentioned above?  

This topic has been very helpful.  Thank you.

[Ken Pollard]

Hi Fiddlefun,

There's nothing quite like having an instrument in hand to see detail, and, so I appreciate your comments on the South Africa fiddle. Being able to compare your instrument to those photos is an advantage. I was perhaps overly captivated by the scroll. I did briefly notice the bit of cobbling about the neck overstand, but assumed that was some sort of repair work poorly done. Looking at it again, it does seem funky. I failed to notice the text in the page prior to the photos -- quite a story on the neck block, or lack thereof.

Thanks,

Ken

[Ron MacDonald]

Hi Fiddlefun,

Your instrument certainly looks interesting but I have several excellent photo sets of Hardie instruments and the soundholes and scroll of yours do not look like Hardie's work. However, Hardie's work declined toward the end of his life and some of his late work may not be typical. I would certainly have an expert examine your fiddle. BTW, the ebay instrument also does not look like Hardie's work.

Ron

[Ken Pollard]

Hi Ron,

Do you know of any sites that show photos of verified Hardie violins aside from the previously mentioned Tarisio archive? There was one from the British violinmakers site, a book on Scottish makers, that shows a Hardie cello.

I am still surprised at the text with the South Africa violin. To go to such trouble to make an instrument, yet without a neck block.

A couple years ago, I had a fellow bring in an handmade instrument, late 1800s, maker in the state of Oregon. Maybe his one and only. Certainly an interesting take on violin design. No one would confuse it with an violinmakers fiddle. But it had a neck graft. After looking at it for awhile, it appeared original to the instrument. I concluded that his model was an instrument with a neck graft, so he assumed that that's the way they were made to begin with.

Thanks,

Ken

[Rob Fowler]

I was also very interested in the ebay Hardie
violin. I was so interested I nearly bid on it! It said in the
listing it had a repair label label by T Thomson Buckie. Now I live
in Buckie and know for a fact there was a fiddle maker by that name
who left Buckie around 1925 to emmigrate to Canada and it seems
quite likely that he would also have repaired violins. This seemed
to add some authenticity to the ebay listing but in the end I also
thought it didn’t look like a Hardie violin and decided to
let it go but I could well have been wrong " font-family: Wingdings;">L

[Ron MacDonald]

Hi Ken,

My photos are those in the "Violinmaking in Scotland" and "The British Violin" books. The first has quite a few of Hardie's instruments. I find his scrolls especially elegant.

Ron

[sunnybear]

so, Ken, you like the big smokey petie Scotch, ehh?

I like the Glenmorangie cask aged stuff..the port aged is delicious...

I've seen a couple Hardies, and played them too..yours looks like the Hardies i've seen...

[Ken Pollard]

Thanks, Ron. I have been thinking of that book for a while. May have to look into it a bit more now.

Hi Sunnybear, the possible Hardie in question belongs to fiddlefun, not me, though I'd be delighted to see it in person. And yes, I do like the smoky peaty whisky. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'd be willing to help you with that smooth Glenmorangie. Likewise, if you're ever out my way, I'd return the favor.

Ken

[Jacob]

About the "South Africa" violin and evaluating the accompanying comments - what would you say about an unlabeled German trade fiddle (which was acknowledged as such) with an asking price of well over US$20,000?

What do you guys know about the "well-known and respected maker J.B Colin"?

The site contains some interesting reading. Anybody can decide for themselves on what some "attributions" are based.

It has been mentioned here on MN what kind of neck/block construction one finds on thousands of entry-level Saxon violins, up to the mid-1900's. The term "Baroque" used in that context might seem a bit unorthodox to some...

[Ken Pollard]

The South African description seemed to me to be something different than the low-end integral neckblock, but perhaps that's what they're writing about. Tis a shame, that fiddle had some interesting aspects, at least in the photos. I am amazed that manufacturers cut corners (or neck blocks) like that. Something like building a car with axles that don't allow rotation.

Now as to $20,000 trade fiddles, I'm about ready to move. Heck, if I can get $10,000 for my trade fiddles, I could do ok. 50% under the competition! Below wholesale! The only problem is that you're headed into fall & winter now, and we're looking at spring & summer, so I guess I'll stay put.

The violin world is an interesting place.

Cheers,

Ken

[Mark Crabtree]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

Jacob

About the "South Africa" violin and evaluating the accompanying comments - what would you say about an unlabeled German trade fiddle (which was acknowledged as such) with an asking price of well over US$20,000?

What do you guys know about the "well-known and respected maker J.B Colin"?

The site contains some interesting reading. Anybody can decide for themselves on what some "attributions" are based.

---

I'd been looking at some of the violin bows on the South Africa site a month or so ago, so am interested to see this discussion.

Jacob, are you referring to the SA "Hardie" as US$20,000? I am not at all familiar with that currency but came up with about $5,000 using an online calculator to convert from the rand. Am I getting something wrong there?

The description of this bow surprised me a bit.

Nurnberger Bow

The bow looks nice and the price doesn't seem unrealistic (if I am doing the calculations right), but I always thought of Nurnberger bows (except very early ones) as coming from a workshop not a particular maker.

[Jacob]

No, I'm not talking about the "Hardie". I was referring to an earlier listing, where an instrument was openly acknowledged as being an unlabeled German trade fiddle.

The local currency is extremely volatile, but has drifted between ZAR6 - ZAR8 to US$1 over the past 6 months.

Yeah, fanciful descriptions and quasi-historical anecdotes. I bet that in the description of every article there is probably one fact which cannot be contested. On that is hung reams of spin like so much throw-away clothing on a scarecrow.