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Woodland

Ebay Strike?

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I have been a buyer and a seller for 9 years with 100% feedback. I do not think these changes to the feedback system are going to solve the problem for buyers and they are going to make it unpleasant or untenable for honest sellers.

In my case, I sell an item, I write the buyer to see if it arrived. I receive dead silence in many cases, and no feedback. I have always offered a complete return in my listings as a matter of course, refunding postage as well, but this makes no difference, the buyer is out there somewhere likely in a sulk, unhappy with something but they won't communicate it.

If I mail something overseas, (often without any tracking ability, to lower the postage), how am I to know the thing arrived or in one piece if they won't answer email or leave feedback?

As a seller, I will withhold feedback until I get some communication from the buyer, any thing at all. To me the transaction is not completed until the buyer is satisfied. The buyer has a responsibility to me beyond just paying for the item, and I state this in my listing. This is where eBay differs from K-Mart. The buyer needs to be fair as well as the seller.

With this change to the feedback system I think passive-agressive buyers (and I am one too), are going to act out, and this will result in fewer honest sellers wanting to put up with eBay.

It will have the opposite of the desired result, in that there will be far fewer honest sellers.

P.S. quote:"Please ask all questions before bidding. All sales are final we represent items to the best of our knowledge. Items sold AS IS."

As an experienced buyer, as well as a seller, I would NEVER buy an instrument, or any thing else, from a seller with these kind of terms!

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Please ask all questions before bidding. All sales are final we represent items to the best of our knowledge. Items sold AS IS. IF SHIPPING INSURANCE IS NOT PURCHASED WE WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR LOST OR DAMAGED ITEMS."

That may be your stated policy but is it ebay/paypals?

If you buy a dishwasher from Sears and it's damaged in transit you better believe that Sears will make it right.

Technically, the seller is legally responsibly to deliver the goods in the same condition as it was bought.

The insurance is for the seller not the buyer. I insure everything because a lost is too painful.,The buyer may decline insure but that still does not absolve the seller from liability, no matter what your stated policy may declare..

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I have never lost a challange with Ebay or Paypal. When you bid on a item you enter into a contract to purchase and and you agree to the terms of the sale.

Ebay isnt Sears.

And this where the problems lies with Ebay you are buying items from a picture and a brief decription. You count on the honesty of the seller and the honesty of the buyer. Ebay would like everyone to believe that you can buy anything on Ebay, that my be true. But not all items are well suited to Ebay sales.

I dont believe that Ebay is good place to purchase violins. It is a very personal purchase, 1 size doesnt fit all. A ipod is a ipod a book is a book, not all violins are equal . And the shady nature of the violin business and it very fussy owners make them a poor fit for Ebay.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
pappy

I

If I mail something overseas, (often without any tracking ability, to lower the postage), how am I to know the thing arrived or in one piece if they won't answer email or leave feedback?


Just as an aside: I ship several items each week to Europe, Asia, and Australia. If you use the long customs form, the number on it is useful as a tracking number (I never use the short form because of shipment value). I have used it successfully to track a few shipments

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Here's a buyer's story: I bought a brand-name item, paying promptly as I always do.

He shipped me a no-name product, claiming it was the brand-name one I bought. I complained. His reply boiled down to "tough".

I complained formally to ebay. They did everything they could to discourage me and close the case, insisting that the seller would have to admit wrongdoing to them. I couldn't get them to hear that he already HAD admitted it to them in the very first exchange. There was no listening at all.

Finally, somehow, it penetrated and they blandly said that yes, he was guilty of misrepresentation and I could get my money back by paying to ship the misrepresented product back to him. When I pointed out that if I paid to ship it back it would leave me still out of pocket, they shrugged. Take it or leave it.

I filed an FTC complaint and left negative feedback. The seller promptly retaliated and then mailed me suggesting mutual withdrawal. I declined, and complained to ebay again. Ebay shrugged again. The negative feedback is still in my record.

The dirtbag folded up shortly thereafter and recently came back under a different name with a clean record. He even had the gall to mail me telling me about it!

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The feedback system is not nor has ever been perfect. So it has always been up to a buyer and or seller to evaluate a seller's/buyer's reputation by the 80 character response that was left in defense of a negative. After all, up till now, a negative feedback was just a red flag.

By what you've described, if I saw your negative, I would also take the time to not only read the negative you gave in return but also, the response you provided in defense of the negative you received. I would also read the response that the seller gave in defense of the negative you gave him. In this example, I believe I would have certainly come to the conclusion that the seller was a con artist and thief and I would not only avoid him but I would block him as well.

Again, the feedback system was never perfect, but it was at least something and most importantly, it belonged to the seller and the buyer. Not eBay. For eBay to step in like this and take away the seller's right to leave a negative is outrageous. It's almost equivalent to a store owner not being able to say anything but nice things about a shoplifter.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
bean_fidhleir
Here's a

buyer's story: I bought a brand-name item, paying promptly as I

always do . . . .  I filed an FTC complaint and left negative

feedback. The seller promptly retaliated and then mailed me

suggesting mutual withdrawal. I declined, and complained to ebay

again. Ebay shrugged again. The negative feedback is still in my

record. The dirtbag folded up shortly thereafter and recently came

back under a different name with a clean record. He even had the

gall to mail me telling me about it!

The way I understand the new feedback system, the dirtbag seller

would not have been able to leave you a neg in retaliation. I

see this as an improvement.

quote:


Originally posted by:
PhilipG
. . . .  take

away the seller's right to leave a negative is outrageous. It's

almost equivalent to a store owner not being able to say anything

but nice things about a shoplifter.

Not comparable at all. Unlike bean_fidhleir, a shoplifter

never pays promptly and according to terms.

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I work very hard to get the items out in a 24hr period and I try to describe them in very accurate manner. Ebay should respond faster to removing poor sellers and buyers. They are painfully slow and I personally think they dont have enough staff to handle the volume. I have called PayPal and they have been helpful.

I was watching a Judge Judy episode where someone was selling cell phones on ebay. In the small print they where actually selling a picture of the phone for $200.00. There defense was that is was disclosed, it was a picture not the actual phone. I took months for ebay to respond to seller. The people payed with a money order so they really didnt have any place to turn but small claims court. These idiots actually thought it was ok.

I bought a violin from a real gem. It was described as a Pirastro violin made in W Germany. It was given as a gift to the Dr Wedle of the Univ of San Diego and was his personal violin. I got the violin and it was actually made by Dr Wedle he belonged to a violin building club, it was also damaged .I contacted the seller he fell of the map and wasnt responding. I filled a claim with Paypal the 10 days pass, the seller never responded and I got my money back. I was lucky he was in the navy and he was at sea during the 10 day period.

He then claimed I didnt pay for the item. I had saved all of the emails with all of the questions and I had contacted Pirastro and a luither about the origins of the violin. We entered into the dispute process and I laid my cards out he just dropped the whole thing. I dont buy violins on ebay anymore

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Not comparable at all. Unlike bean_fidhleir, a shoplifter never pays promptly and according to terms.

Onree, have you ever sold or tried to sell anything on eBay? My guess is that you have not. The above example, as in a failure to pay, is only a tiny fraction of the problems that honest sellers have experienced by some buyers.

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I don’t buy violins on ebay anymore


Hello Nick,

There are a lot of people on Maestronet who don't buy

violins on eBay, but there are also a lot of MNers who sell

violins on ebay., myself included. The vast majority are

very honest sellers, a lot of whom offer a return policy, myself

also included. Most of the violins sell at a steep discount to what

one would expect to pay at a shop. There are obvious disadvantages

to buying on ebay,such as not being able to play it first, and

not seeing the condition that well. That is the reason for a return

policy, which is your insurance policy. It is a pity that some

sellers charge a lot more than actual cost including

materials for shipping, which is generally the buyer's

responsibility in case of returns.

I just think it is unfair to categorize all ebay

violins as junk, and all sellers as dishonest, with one or two

exceptions, which comes up quite often on this forum, . It is

unfortunate that one bad experience with one seller on ebay has

closed the doors for you, on what could be a wonderful opportunity

to get a very nice violin at a steep discount.

I buy and sell on ebay. I've got some real bargains. I

also got burned a couple of times, because of my decision to

buy without sufficient information. I also found a violin for a

hundred bucks that I will probably never part with, for any

price.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
PhilipG
Not comparable at

all. Unlike bean_fidhleir, a shoplifter never pays promptly and

according to terms.
Onree, have you ever sold or tried to sell

anything on eBay? My guess is that you have not. The above example,

as in a failure to pay, is only a tiny fraction of the problems

that honest sellers have experienced by some buyers.

Well, you guess wrong! I haven't sold a huge amount, but have sold

3 antique cars, a violin, 3 double basses, some old violin

journals, an antique lamp, and a tuba, and some other things that

I've forgotten what they were.  I left positive feedback as

soon as I was paid. I got positive back, except for a couple that

didn't bother to leave any feedback at all. The only problem that I

had was with a guy who paid for a car -- and then I couldn't get

him to come pick it up!  This just seems like no one wants to

let the other guy have the last word.

Onree (positive feedback only 132)

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I never said they are all violins on Ebay are junk. I just think they are not the best items you can buy on Ebay. A violin is a very personal purchase it isnt a Ipod, they arent all created equal. There are many very good Ebayers. I have a store and have over 300 positives, so I know the ebay game quite well. I just think somethings are better items for ebay.

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Nick, I know you didn't say all ebay violins are junk, etc., ( a

lot of them are, if not in the right hands) but there are a lot of

good violins, and some reputable sellers of violins on ebay. Maybe

I've been reading about the negative aspects of buying online in

the posts in this forum. There are also positive aspects that don't

get as much attention.

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Perhaps. If we are acting like a bunch of eBay'ers, you may have a point. My guess is that enough sellers will be through with eBay because of the new feedback system and then eBay will reverse this decision of theirs. I believe that they are now trapped into implementing it as they feel they can't back-peddle too quickly for fear of how badly they'll look. After all, in the long run, all eBay looks at is the line that either rises in the black or drops into the red. At any rate, I will not sell again with eBay if they put this feedback policy into play. Unless I stick to a local pickup only, where the person can see the item and decide then and there if they really want it.

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I just noticed that my listing fees have gone down quite a bit and checked into these new changes. It turns out that my final value fees have been cut as well. Upon checking further, because my seller profile scores are all 4.8 and 4.9, I get additional discounts and cheaper shipping. So far so good!

If I can't leave negatives for my buyers; who cares? I don't want to leave negs anyway. I have only left one neg, and that was a few years ago. I have only received one neg, and now that will go away with the new rules. Also, now my repeat customer's positives will count toward my rating. Even if my buyer fails to pay, the listing has brought me additional prospects anyway, for a ridiculously low cost. I have been involved in over 1500 successful eBay transactions, have a rating of 737, with 942 positives.

All the changes will mean to me is that my business will save money. What difference does a buyer's negative make to a seller anyway? I am not interested in eliminating potential bidders even if they have had problems with another seller. It is in my interest to have as many bidders and buyers as possible. If a buyer with negatives wins one of my items, should I refuse to complete the sale? How does that help me?

As far as I am concerned, once the buyer pays, he has done his job. If he isn't pleased with my item, he can send it back. I consider a disatisfied buyer to be my fault. If my description is accurate, the bidder will be happy with their purchase. If they are not happy, I assume my description was faulty, incomplete, or overblown. Sometimes the buyer's expectations aren't realistic, but that is part of being a seller. I rely on good communication to insure that even those who return an item leave me positive feedback.

I, for one, am happy with the changes.

Jesse

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I thought of this thread yesterday when I saw this auction.

I know, it is not much of a violin, but check out the last couple

lines of the seller's description.

myurl

onree

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(My response to myurl of last post )

The seller is fair and humorous. I wish all sellers like that. For $71 it is a good deal.

If the wood of the violin is of good quality, even in bad shape, but old then it may be more than $200.

I have no idea why he said what he said. If the music store knows what he sells then $400 was not out of line.

Without a close inspection of the violin by a knowledgeable person anything said is a guesswork.

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On a thread-related note, has anyone else noticed an apparent drop in the number of eBay auction listings? A couple of categories that I frequently watch, suddenly seem to have about 65% - 75% of their previous normal volume. Is this possibly a result of the 'strike', or is it further indication of the slowdown in the overall economy? Or what?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Ron1

On a thread-related note, has anyone else noticed an apparent drop in the number of eBay auction listings? A couple of categories that I frequently watch, suddenly seem to have about 65% - 75% of their previous normal volume. Is this possibly a result of the 'strike', or is it further indication of the slowdown in the overall economy? Or what?

No one has uttered a word on this whole forum for 2 1/2 days, so I thought my observation (above) might be worthy of a bump. I find it difficult to believe that no one else has noticed the startling drop in number of eBay listings in the past couple of weeks. Any other comments regarding this, or possible cause or reasons?

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I concur with Ron's observation. The violin listings (old, vintage, antique violins) have dropped significantly. They appear to be only 5-6 pages for each search now.

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I would guess that a slow down in the ecomony would 1) force people to sell things, 2) lower final sell prices. The first would increase listings, the second would tend to drive some sellers away who can afford not to sell on ebay. As to the strike--it is misguided. Ebay is trying to clean up the fraud. For ebay to work for sellers requires a bunch of buyers to get a good price for just a single item. Their attention to troublesome sellers is just basic economics and should be recognized as such by rational and honest sellers. By running off one bad seller they decrease the number of unhappy buyers by a substantial factor. As such, the decrease in listings could also be that fraudsters have gone elsewhere due to new policies.

It would be interesting to know if average sell price has gone up or down.

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I have recieved numerous emails from Ebay. They are offering lower listing fees for Ebay Stores. I have also noticed a reduction in traffic at my store. I think the recent changes where in an effort to keep more customers in the ebay system. Some people are turned off by Ebay, they have been burned buy poor sellers and will take there money elsewhere. I think the economy may also be an issue. That may also mean there may be some bargains for the buyers if there is less bidding.

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I've noticed a dropoff of quality modern first editions over the last month. I don't know whether it's the strike, ebay policies, general lack of enthusiasm by buyers due to tough times or lack of dealers who are willing to sell at bottomfeeder prices.

I suspect folks with quality items are not willing to let them go at fire-sale prices, though you'd think that in tough times there'd be a move to liquidate assets for hard cash. Maybe folks assume, as do I, that the situation will improve over the next several months.

I have to add that I'm distressed by the new ebay policy of hiding info on bidders. It makes evaluating the competition much more difficult, and spotting shill bidders tougher as well. Still pretty much the only worldwide game in town, though.

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It's probably as Nick60 wrote:  "Some people are turned off by

Ebay, they have been burned buy poor sellers and will take there

money elsewhere."  The novelty has worn off, even for folks

who joined the party late, and the sad reality is setting in.

Add to that all the changes Ebay has made in the last 2 years,

which all help protect dishonest sellers, and well, they get what

they get.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Ron1
On a thread-related note, has anyone else noticed an apparent drop in the number of eBay auction listings? A couple of categories that I frequently watch, suddenly seem to have about 65% - 75% of their previous normal volume. Is this possibly a result of the 'strike', or is it further indication of the slowdown in the overall economy? Or what?

i think they changed their policies about items on ebay.co.uk which were automatically as well listed on ebay.com in the past, but they don´t do that any longer.

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