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Ebay Strike?

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Apparently some eBay sellers are planning a week-long Ebay strike the week of February 18th in response to the rate increases and feedback policy changes. Apparently the option to leave negative feedback is being done away with. Another area for concern is the ability of PayPal to hold money for 21 days until positive feedback is left. It seems like both sides (corporate eBay and eBay sellers) have their own take on what this means.

Here's one take:

Does anyone care to shed some more light on this subject?

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I think everyone should join in the strike!

I dont care for paypal either,even though they are now owned by ebay.Ive noticed quite a few sellers in the UK now refusing to use paypal.Personally i havent used them for around 5 years.

I think they are in danger of changing ebay too much from what supposedly is an online auction site to just another shopping mall online.

I prefered ebay like it was several years ago and that was what attracted everyone i know to it .Not how the direction seems to be going. The 21 day thing is approaching a credit card merchant account and it isnt what the average non business seller would want.

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This whole deal is making me rethink my own eBay store. It generally doesn't sell anything that's new and selling at fair market value. eBay is good for clearing out older merchandise at heavy discounts. So why am I spending $40+ a month listing merchandise that doesn't sell? I used to do it for the internet exposure, but now that I built my own web site I'm probably going to phase out the eBay store. As far as PayPal is concerned, I think I'm done with them. 3% fee? C'mon! My merchant credit card account is around half of that.

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The world has never seen the likes of Ebay and it has changed the way we do business.

It's revenue rivals the economies of nations and like a nation it imposes rules, regulations, financing

and a system of adjudication which all ebay citizens must abide. Within the Ebay world, their determinations are final. Paypal ruling are final . There is no appeal process within the ebay world. Break a rule and face deportation.

And I don't have to tell you but there is no rival company that even comes close to Ebay. If you leave Ebay

there is no place to go. Ebay knows that their seller can be squeezed and time they want. And Ebay buyers couldn't be less interested. Ebay sellers have no voice, no union, no system of representation, in short no juice. Power sellers are powerless.

Boycott okay, why not if it makes you feel in control, Let's send a vague message of discontentment.

Of course the scab seller will get more hits during that week and reap a windfall.

I think Ebay is a great way for an existing business to increase their market dramatically. And it's a terrific way to start a business with virtually no overhead. But a business plan to start a business on Ebay should include a plan to extricate itself from Ebay once standing on firm legs.

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I like Priya's comments on this one. Ebay should be a place to sell something every now and then when you don't have a better way of marketing it. Once you get any kind of name for yourself it's really time to leave the place. Personally I use it every now and then to try to promote a violin that I have just completed but it almost never results in a sale. Mainly I just do it to drive a few new people to my website. I don't try to use it as a source of income or a substitute for a business, I just use it for promotion (I will add that I do not have anything on Ebay now, in the past few months, or in the near future). Frankly I'm surprised by the number of people that spend their time trading violins on ebay. They hunt the listings looking for some "gem in the rough." Then do a little work on it and expect to make some big profit off of it, or worse think they found something important. If they're so good then they should set up a real shop and build a real reputation rather than being junk peddlers. Ebay can do whatever it wants as far as I'm concerned. It started out as a way for people to sell their junk to other people and it will always be an online fleamarket. It's good in that role and when I want something cheap that's where I will go to find it. But don't expect me to go there to buy a violin, no matter what their current policies are.

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To me , It's not so much the fee increase, this is a free market, and one should get what you can. The reason that I plan to strike is the new feedback policy that will allow sellers to leave only positive feedback to buyers. Thats a foul pot of s--t ebays cooked up for the folks that feed the monster.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
jaf67
 ...  The

reason that I plan to strike is the new feedback policy that will

allow sellers to leave only positive feedback to buyers. Thats a

foul pot of s--t ebays cooked up for the folks that feed the

monster.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!!! This is the best part of the new

policies!  jaf 67, you must be an ebay seller. The only

reason a Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the

Buyer doesn't pay according to terms. I'll say it again: THE ONLY

REASON a Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the

Buyer doesn't pay according to terms. That can easily be taken

care of by the non paying bidder process. Anything else is just

retaliation or holding hostage.

Over the years, I have won numerous auctions, paid promptly

(sometimes within a few minutes) and had Sellers refuse to leave me

a positive unless I left them one first. So even though I fulfilled

all of MY obligations, I was left in a "feedback hostage"

situation. Talk about "a foul pot of s--t"

Onree   (ebay member since 2002)

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I buy and sell on ebay, mostly antique auto parts. I guess you never had someone try to extort money from you after a sale, using the threat of a negative feedback. How would a seller fight that if the feedback system only works one way?

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"THE ONLY REASON a Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the Buyer doesn't pay according to terms."

I disagree. If a buyer leaves negative feedback with a spurious explanation, I think it's useful to have an opportunity to reply. EG, Buyer Comment: "product was lousy".... Seller Response: "buyer turned down opportunity to return item." I like having the opportunity to respond (even though I have only had 1 occasion in 10 year to do so), and I like reading these exchanges to get a feel for people. As a rule, I steer clear of cranks and argumentative types.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
jaf67
I buy and sell on

ebay, mostly antique auto parts. I guess you never had someone try

to extort money from you after a sale, using the threat of a

negative feedback. How would a seller fight that if the feedback

system only works one way?

FROM

THE NEW EBAY POLICY:

What happens when a buyer uses negative Feedback as a threat to

receive better service or additional goods/services from the

seller? If a buyer uses the threat of negative Feedback to demand

more than what was promised in the item description (e.g. wants

overnight delivery but only paid for standard delivery) the seller

should immediately report the buyer to eBay. If there is clear

evidence of extortion eBay will take action typically on a

first offense. If a buyer shows a pattern of malicious behavior

(multiple seller reports such as UPI), eBay will most likely

suspend the buyer. If we suspend the buyer, any negative or

neutral Feedback the buyers left for sellers will be removed.

Sellers should only file these complaints when the buyer asks for

more than what is promised in the listing. Filing a false claim may

result in seller suspension.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Richf
"THE ONLY REASON a

Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the Buyer doesn't

pay according to terms." I disagree. If a buyer leaves negative

feedback with a spurious explanation, I think it's useful to have

an opportunity to reply. EG, Buyer Comment: "product was lousy"....

Seller Response: "buyer turned down opportunity to return item." I

like having the opportunity to respond (even though I have only had

1 occasion in 10 year to do so), and I like reading these exchanges

to get a feel for people. As a rule, I steer clear of cranks and

argumentative types.

I agree, Richf, I enjoy reading those "he said -- she said"

exchanges as well, and also find them useful. And I know that some

buyers have unrealistic expectations. But I stand by my assertion

that once a buyer has paid according to the seller's terms that

they have done their part.

I'll bet that there are a lot of sellers out there that some of

their positive feedback was left by buyers only because of

fear of retaliation.

Onree

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...."The only reason a Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the Buyer doesn't pay according to terms. I'll say it again: THE ONLY REASON a Seller should ever have to leave a negative is if the Buyer doesn't pay according to terms. That can easily be taken care of by the non paying bidder process. Anything else is just retaliation or holding hostage..."

Wow! I guess you've never sold anything on eBay! You make it sound as if "buyers not paying according to terms", falls under a very narrowly defined behavioral pattern, that is not only easy to identify, but when reported to eBay, total satisfaction is the immediate outcome.

I have news for you - trying to simply GET eBay's attention, let alone a response from them, is worse than trying to complain to an insurance company. Try phoning eBay and see what happens. Talk about pressing button after button only to get a recording directing you to a web address.

I have had buyers fail to read my item description and then complain that the item wasn't described correctly, expect, even demand, that their personal check be honored immediately (when my auction terms state a ten day wait), complain that their item wasn't shipped in the "Flat Rate Priority Mail Container", regardless of my explaining that the item wouldn't fit, etc. You name it, I have either experienced it or heard about it.

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I agree with the potential unreasonableness of eBay buyers. My brother collects, restores, and deals in vintage mechanical wristwatches. His favorite / most notorious auction arose in a situation where he had two wristwatches for auction that were identical but for the color of their dial--one was red and one was green. Each was listed separately, with no mention of the other. When the buyer of the red-dialed watch received his item in the mail, he blew up and demanded that my brother both refund his money AND let him keep the watch. You see, he really wanted the watch with the green dial, even though he had only bid on the watch with the red dial. My brother was reported to eBay, had negative feedback left, and generally had to deal with a whole lot of awfulness from eBay, which takes the position that the buyer is always right.

My brother has pretty much stopped selling anything on eBay. He says he'd rather take a smaller profit by selling locally because it's less of a hassle.

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I run and have always run, honest auctions. But in all honesty, I am still terrified of getting a neg. And so I will do everything within my power to avoid one. I will work with the buyer however possible. But sadly, there are people whom you can not please no matter what you do, no matter what you promise or, no matter how much you live up to your promises. And even if the auction is perfect in every way; the item description, the terms stated, you shipped the item on time, the buyer received the item in perfect condition, still, they may simply find fault with it for any number of reasons. Usually so personal to them that it makes no sense to anyone else but them. Because of them, I never leave feedback first.

eBay should not be a department store. Sadly though, the eBay upper management has come to look at their empire as just that. And now looks at every seller as the head of one small, even tiny department. Totally controlled by them. That's a terrible and very unfair responsibility to place on any seller, let alone the small, few items per month seller.

Of course, I haven't even mentioned the scam artist or con artist type of buyer. They are preparing right now, even licking their fingers in delight over what they are perceiving as open season on sellers for them.

I am reminded of a well respected seller who posts here at times. He left positive feedback for one buyer first. The buyer left him an unfair negative in return, several weeks after the auction closed. If the new feedback system goes into effect, it will be potentially like that for every seller for every sale. That's very unfair.

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If not eBay where else can we go? I like the auction format. I don't shop at the online stores of eBay or any other site. UBid? Nothing but junk. I avoid Amazon because they try to be all things to all people. If they have an auction area, I can't find it.

eBay is going to continue to be heavy handed and unresponsive because they can. Buyers and sellers have no place else to go.

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As a seller I always leave positive feedback as soon as I'm paid, something like "Very smooth transaction, thanks again. AAA+++++". I send an email to my buyer stating when I'll ship, how I'll ship, thank them for the payment and tell them that I've left feedback. In over 800 transactions, I've made one price adjustment, (my error in description of item), and refunded payment for two different items because buyers weren't satisfied with the transaction (didn't think my description was accurate). I still have 100% positive feedback as a buyer and as a seller. I want my buyers to be pleasantly surprised when they open the package so I underdescribe items. I try to use L.L. Bean's sales philosophy, not the corporation but Leon Leonwood Bean himself, "You must be one hundred percent satisfied or your money cheerfully refunded". I never argue with a buyer and have never, not once, been threatened with negative feedback. My username on ebay is heyjude45638 if you want to see what good feedback looks like. Not brag, just fact. I know how to have a pleasant selling experience on ebay.

Jude

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Hi, Jude or "Hey Jude"....sorry, I couldn't resist.

I hope you continue with having excellent luck in leaving positive feedback first. But if and or when you get even one unfair neg, which will then stand out like a pimple on prom night, I tend to think that you may change your policy at the time.

That's if you are still able. If eBay goes ahead with this new feedback system, even the best, most nicest of sellers, will have to tolerate even the most unfair negs.

It really has to be the ultimate smack in the face for any seller to receive a negative after leaving a positive first. I have seen it happen a number of times. And each time it happened, I'll bet the seller never left positive feedback first again.

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Actually Philip it wouldn't. I've got forty pages of positive

feedback. A negative wouldn't hurt me or scare me. Most people are

intelligent enough to see how the scales balance. Eight hundred

positive on one side, a big negative on the other side wouldn't

bother me a bit. When I started six years ago I was concerned, but

I've got the numbers on my side now. Read my feedback. Would you

like to buy from a seller that gets the kind of feedback I get? It

wasn't free, I had to work hard for it and I'm very proud of

it.

Jude

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Priya, your comments contrast quite oddly with the kind of response one would expect from the person you use as an avatar.

I only buy on Ebay (very occasionally, usually tools or science books, and never violins) and would be the first one to say the rules appear to be growing exponentially in bias against the seller. To suggest nothing can be done seems shortsighted and defeatist.

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Hi, Jude and so far I guess I have close to 20 pages of feedback, all positives as well. I'm sure you have worked hard for your positives and I have also. As I don't know what you are selling, I don't know how to categorize your items - if such is possible. For example, do you sell antiques, musical instruments, clothing?

What I'm getting at is, unless you have established yourself in one niche or another as a specialty, or simply have a good many positives, a negative can really hurt and perhaps, even destroy. I suppose also that, if a seller has a tremdous amount of positive feedback, they are less likely to be the target of some random unscrupulous buyer. With this new feedback system, clearly, it will be the smaller seller who will suffer the most.

Also, I don't know if you have ever left a negative to any of your buyers (you may have stated so in a past post; I simply don't remember, sorry), but you did have the power to do so before. I truly believe that removing this option for sellers, is going to literally change the way buyers look at the eBay market overall and how they will now look at sellers. It used to be a fair balance between buyer and seller. This new fb system is terribly unbalanced.

Anyway, here's an online petition that you can look at that will give you an idea of what people are saying overall:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com...icy-unfair-for-sellers

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Judging from the comments I've read here (and elsewhere) the

present system is obviously not satisfactory. Let's try something

different and see if it works better.

I'm posting this excerpt from the new ebay policy again, because

itlooks like some haven't read it. To me it looks like it

might be more effective than the current policy.

FROM THE NEW EBAY POLICY:What happens when a buyer uses

negative Feedback as a threat to receive better service or

additional goods/services from the seller? If a buyer uses the

threat of negative Feedback to demand more than what was promised

in the item description (e.g. wants overnight delivery but only

paid for standard delivery) the seller should immediately report

the buyer to eBay. If there is clear evidence of extortion eBay

will take action typically on a first offense. If a buyer shows

a pattern of malicious behavior (multiple seller reports such as

UPI), eBay will most likely suspend the buyer. If we suspend the

buyer, any negative or neutral Feedback the buyers left for sellers

will be removed. Sellers should only file these complaints when

the buyer asks for more than what is promised in the listing.

Filing a false claim may result in seller suspension.

Onree

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Hi, Onree,

Try phoning eBay. Or emailing them. See how successful you are in getting a "real person" or anything past an automated or, if you're lucky, a rehearsed response.

I love this next line of eBay's:

"If there is clear evidence of extortion eBay will take action typically on a first offense."

If this was anything much more serious than eBay, and something that could or would affect you personally, the above line would outrage you as it is outraging so many others.

Then there is this:

"Filing a false claim may result in seller suspension."

Buyers on eBay, as do so many other people, usually have more than one email account. It would be very hard therefore, to prove extortion, especially if you receive an email from a buyer's secondary, or whatever, email account. And again, if you have ever tried to deal directly with eBay, then perhaps you could appreciate more what I am trying to point out. In the five years that I have been buying and selling on eBay, I have yet to speak with a real person at eBay. And I have tried a number of times over the years.

Well, only time will tell if eBay reverses such a policy. I highly doubt if this will result in a more satisfactory or more productive environment for sellers.

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I think we need to take Ebay for what it is, it is a giant yard sale. I have had a store for about a 2 years and 99% of the people you deal with are good and decent. It is a very inexpensive way to have a worldwide store front. Where else can you do that for $ 14.95 a month. I sell motorcycle parts (BMW), repair manuals, china, books and some instruments. I would have no other venue to sell these items. I do know some folks that have closed there stores. There biggest complaint was that it was open 24/7 which has it advantages but also means it is hard to get away from it. That being said there are 2 groups of people I have had trouble with, MUSICAINS & MOTORCYCLISTS. It has been my experiance that these 2 groups which I am a member of both are obssesive. I own 3 businesses and people are going to try beat you everyday, that is just part of the game. I have 300 postive reviews and I try to protect myself with the following, and I dont move one inch from that disclaimer.

Please ask all questions before bidding. All sales are final we represent items to the best of our knowledge. Items sold AS IS. IF SHIPPING INSURANCE IS NOT PURCHASED WE WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR LOST OR DAMAGED ITEMS.

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"Please ask all questions before bidding. All sales are final we represent items to the best of our knowledge. Items sold AS IS. IF SHIPPING INSURANCE IS NOT PURCHASED WE WILL NOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR LOST OR DAMAGED ITEMS."

Good wording, but I forgot to add one more thing about buyers, something I have noticed with a great regularity and so have so many other sellers....

Buyers very rarely read the item description fully. Or the auction terms such as payment options, waiting period for personal checks, etc. I'm I'm lucky, they will ask the question(s) that, had they read the description, they would have seen the answer very quickly. That's if I'm lucky.

I should also point out that my auctions have always been very clearly written and as short and pert-to-the-point as possible. Yet I still get so many redundant questions.

Well, again, we can only wait and see how this will work out. I myself though, will not sell using eBay under such a potentially damaging system.

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