Advice for building A Tuning Box


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"Jeesssh GMM22-you are mean!"

Arithmetic or geometric?

No matter, it is just a little diversion from the mundane, with no meanness intended. I only joke in such a way because I genuinely like him. Besides, I think hidden behind that facade of naivete and inexperience lurks an intuitive mechanician who is just finding his feet.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
GMM22

Very interesting. Perhaps he might wish to simplify the exercise in entirety by utilizing a glass of water filled accordingly to produce an A note upon tapping. Of course he will have to devise a method of maintaining the correct water level as it will evaporate over time. An automatic reservoir would seem to be the best solution.

The water needn't be inside the glass to work.......outside works just as well.

I have my water glass mounted inside the toilet tank, which maintains a fairly constant water level. Rising mineral levels due to evaporation (which might alter calibration) can be periodically flushed away.

I tried to get tuner manufacturers to pay me off to keep this a secret, but as it turns out, toilet manufacturers were much more "reasonable".

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I must say edi malinaric (one poster here) is the winner. I was mistaken that a box of any size will amplify the sound.

Put something (a sound source, or a speaker ) inside any box may get bigger sound. Not true, It has to be sympathetic.

Thank you for the calculation of dimensions of the box.

The sound I have heard from my box is noisy (or mixture of A) as some of you said,

my hearing has been confused (or fooled) The sound is long lasting. The only thing

the box does.

A salute from me to my luthier friends. ( I am convinced that they all are smart)

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Well heck, if we're getting serious here again, Edi's calculations for length of an air column are good.

One must also take into account the shape and radius of the edges. Getting this wrong could produce an "A" with a "wolf".

Coupling the tuning fork to a resonator with no mathematical relationship might produce a lower volume, but greater accuracy and longer sustain.

Edit: I should probably retract the above because I've over-simplified it, and don't want to spend the time going into all the whys and wherefores.

quote:


Originally posted by:
bob kogut

Seriously,

I don't know if Yuen meant to do this or not, but notice that he placed the tuning fork right where the nodal point would be on the wooden piece, in order to obtain the strongest resonance from the vibration of the fork.

Theoretically, you can't drive a resonance at a node.

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1/4 wavelength might be as good ()Link.

This would make for a box that is closed at one end, and 97mm x 59.946mm x 59.946mm. (1:.618:.618) The other two dimensions were found using the golden ratio (.618...).

Alternatively, one could use 97 x 64 2/3 x 48.5 (1/4:1/6:1/8)

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Actually we can be quite creative with this. The classic physics experiment is to have two of these boxes, with identical tuning forks, placed so that the openings face each other. When one tuning fork is struck, the sound waves travel from one box to the other box and the second tuning fork resonates with the first. How about we place one box on each side of the head for a stereo effect. I guess the big question is whether the sound waves will travel from one side of the head to the other (either around or through)?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
FiddleDoug

Actually we can be quite creative with this. The classic physics experiment is to have two of these boxes, with identical tuning forks, placed so that the openings face each other. When one tuning fork is struck, the sound waves travel from one box to the other box and the second tuning fork resonates with the first. How about we place one box on each side of the head for a stereo effect. I guess the big question is whether the sound waves will travel from one side of the head to the other (either around or through)?

As a kid, I used 2 tin cans separated by a taut string to convey sound. A little bit of surgery (seek the aid of a professional) could connect the two boxes through the ear drums for that stereo effect

Seriously, if I need an up-close A440, I strike the tuning fork and bring the metal base to rest on the bone just behind the ear. Works as well as a resonator box.

I still like my idea of a vso serving as a resonator box.

Now if you succeed in amplifying the tuning fork enough, should we be inventing a tuning fork mute?

'Way to go yuen, what an inspirational thread.............Absurdity we can all recognize...................A toast

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quote:


Originally posted by:
David Burgess

Theoretically, you can't drive a resonance at a node.

Interesting point. But very close to a node is appropriate for a very high impedance source such as the tang of a steel tuning fork. I find that the corner blocks of a violin are better than the bridge to excite a violin. The bridge is not a node for a bowed string, but one bows fairly close to an actual node. Trying to bow too far from the end of the effective length of a string causes a poor coupling. It is interesting to experiment with such things.

This may be interesting to experimenters who wish to look at the input impedances at various parts of a violin. Such as the bridge feet and neck heel. Oded ?

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Strauzart wrote: "Seriously, if I need an up-close A440, I strike the tuning fork and bring the metal base to rest on the bone just behind the ear. Works as well as a resonator box. "

Good point.

Actually as part of this exercise you can compare the tuning fork sound in front of the ear with that heard when placed on the mastoid process (bone behind the ear).

This will tell you when you are due for the next ear-wax removal operation.

---------------------------

Are air-heads better resonators than others?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
strauzart

As a kid, I used 2 tin cans separated by a taut string to convey sound. A little bit of surgery (seek the aid of a professional) could connect the two boxes through the ear drums for that stereo effect
[/img]


If you move the string back and forth, it's called "brain flossing". Retards plaque buildup. Recommended after thinking about popcorn.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
David Burgess

If you move the string back and forth, it's called "brain flossing". Retards plaque buildup. Recommended after thinking about popcorn.

rofl

David

I wasn't going to contribute any more to this serious discussion but I note that your recent icon appears to amalgamate my prior suggestion of a vso as a tuning amplifier with the more recent suggestion of a stereo system/brain flosser. I imagine the second instrument is just out of range to the right, and the string which is hardly visible is attached to the lower bass bout. But where is the tuning fork?

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++++++++++

quote:


Originally posted by:
DutchViolins

I'm still wondering if Yuen's question is a serious one.

IMHO it's a non-discussion!

Frits

++++++++++++++

Build a box is not a problem. Glue a tuning fork on a box is not a problem.

Not everyone knows the right size of box when these

two things are put together, the resulting device will

function as a tuning box. That is a problem,

It should not be taken for granted.

For example, why it does not work if you put the

fork inside of the box ? (From theory or from experiment?)

In short, the tuning box has to be carefully designed.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
strauzart

David

I wasn't going to contribute any more to this serious discussion but I note that your recent icon appears to amalgamate my prior suggestion of a vso as a tuning amplifier with the more recent suggestion of a stereo system/brain flosser. I imagine the second instrument is just out of range to the right, and the string which is hardly visible is attached to the lower bass bout. But where is the tuning fork?

In that particular experiment, I was trying to use the vibration of the tensioned floss itself in place of a tuning fork. By rosining the floss before use, there were four outputs:

A direct brain tickle at 440 hz;

An audible output through the mouth (harmonic structure can be manipulated by shaping the mouth, as Peter Frampton frequently did with his guitar)

One output each from the two violins to which the floss is attached.

Since precise floss tension was critical to producing 440 hz, this ultimately wasn't successful for tuning, but I learned that by fingering the the strings on the two violins while carefully controlling floss tension and exit angle from the ears, I could play some lovely quartets.

Unfortunately, listeners weren't privy to the "brain tickle" component and only heard a trio, so I abandoned plans to concertize. The available trio literature is just too limiting.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
yuen

++++++++++

quote:


Originally posted by:
DutchViolins

I'm still wondering if Yuen's question is a serious one.

IMHO it's a non-discussion!

Frits

++++++++++++++

Build a box is not a problem. Glue a tuning fork on a box is not a problem.

Not everyone knows the right size of box when these

two things are put together, the resulting device will

function as a tuning box. That is a problem,

It should not be taken for granted.

For example, why it does not work if you put the

fork inside of the box ? (From theory or from experiment?)

In short, the tuning box has to be carefully designed.

If the reason for your box is sound amplification just put the fork before a microphone and make it audible via your audio system.

Never seen people who want to tune the A on their violin using a tuning fork with amplification tools.

Frits

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It took me a long while of thinking to understand in theory and in an experiment that a fork

inside of a box will not work. It did ring for a long time in experiment but it was a noise I got. WHY?

Interesting to know. The fork cut into the regularity of the air volume. If the fork is out side

the air vibrates (contracts and expands) as a regular volume.(not a broken one)

Sorry it is way off the topic. I am glad it is settled.

It was before I knew I could put the tuning fork over my head (or ear bone)

I have to use my head somehow.

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No pain, no gain! Oh brother.

So the point of this box is to amplify the sound of the tuning fork... and we're discussing whether or not the 'amplified' sound is distorted or compromised via the box?

My first thought is, if you're having trouble hearing your tuning fork, you're probably having trouble hearing your violin, so... what's the point of being in tune anyway?

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One should have a measure of levity in discussion forums, otherwise things are too sterile. If one adheres to the ethical code of do no harm, then the tuning fork question is not objectionable. Had he noted that a suitably large tuning fork could also be modified to double as a slingshot, for which one might then attempt to injure, why that would clearly be unacceptable.

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