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BBBXXX

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Hi guys, I am new to this forum. I recently bought a Jules Fetique bow. But when I received the certificate for the bow, I realized that two of the pictures of the certificate is inconsistent with my bow. The only picture that matches my bow is the one with the exhibition stamp on it. I called the shop, being stubborn, they insist that the pictures are of my bow. I go to college at Rice studying with Jimmy Lin, so I can not possibly take the bow back now because the shops in berkeley and I'm in houston. But first I want to make sure that my theory is correct before doing anything. So what are your opinions?

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Mr.GMM2 The person I talked to told me that the pictures are of the fetique bow, and it is the lighting which plays trick on my eyes. At first he told me he took all three pictures together, but I questioned why then that the leather grip are different between the two pictures in the certificate, he then said that the bottom two pictures were taken long time ago. And he clammed that they have never sold a bow by Jules Fetique, therefore my bow was the only Jules Fetique bow in his database. After the conversation, I don't know what to believe anymore. GAHH!! Life is hard!

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The grain in the head, both the runout and the pattern of the little black "dashes" in the grain anywhere you look, the contours of the tip where it curves to a point and where it meets the ivoroid shoe... The actual differs from the certificate in ways that could not be caused by subsequent modification. If the tip were repaired or reshaped, it would be smaller/thinner, not larger/thicker. I also see differences in the button end. The hex shape of the wood where it meets the screw, the screw itself is different, especially where it meets the wood, the finish color and wear.

It would be quite educational to lift up that faux gator hide and see how well the brand matches the certificate :-)

This is like one of those picture puzzle games they have for kids. "Find the differences!" ...the pocket is missing from the boy's shirt, the ball doesn't have stripes, it has spots, there's no cloud over the tree...

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Im being reserved in the reply,as i know too well how different lighting can make a bow head in particular look.Some pictures show pores ,but at different angles the pores arent visible.

Bow photos from certificates often look very unflattering,which i think is often the point.

If you look at the pictures of the adjuster,on one photo it looks like there isnt hardly any second collar where it meets the stick,on another it looks to have a very distinctive second collar.Photos can play tricks,which is why ive concentrated on the outline and the grain of the wood.Wrapping on the bow is neither here no there.The very thin thumb wrapping is what it would have originally had as in the top photo of the certificate.

Has the original poster put the branding protection on??

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quote:


Originally posted by:
fiddlecollector

Im being reserved in the reply,as i know too well how different lighting can make a bow head in particular look.Some pictures show pores ,but at different angles the pores arent visible.

Bow photos from certificates often look very unflattering,which i think is often the point.

If you look at the pictures of the adjuster,on one photo it looks like there isnt hardly any second collar where it meets the stick,on another it looks to have a very distinctive second collar.Photos can play tricks,which is why ive concentrated on the outline and the grain of the wood.Wrapping on the bow is neither here no there.The very thin thumb wrapping is what it would have originally had as in the top photo of the certificate.

Has the original poster put the branding protection on??

I'll bet that some better photos will clear up your problem quickly. It seems obvious that there is a mixup, but your pictures do have so much shadow and glare that maybe the shop didn't take time to really study them. Turn the flash off and put the bow in some nice even light. Outdoor on an overcast day is probably the easiest situation, but you can find good window light or artificial light if you pay attention to the glare and shadows as you look at the bow from the camera position.

My guess is that the shop stuck a picture of the wrong head on your certificate.

Your bow is lovely; I hope everything works out well.

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thank you all for replying! I purchased this bow around christmas last year, and the leather grip was put on right after i bought it. I just received the certificate by mail from Ifshins Violins yesterday and the first thing i realized was the inconsistency of the stick of the last two pictures of the certificate. The bow that i have has all original parts, at least thats what i was told by Jay Ifshin, he also told me that the bow was from his own collection and no one has ever played on it before. So from that statement, I decided to put the leather on the bow to protect its current condition. If everything of the bow was original and never been used before, how cold the bow from the third picture of the certificate be having a different leather grip than the first picture of the certificate? Well I called and asked the shop the same question, and the sales person told me that the bow was used before. I am sick of getting mixed answers from a such reputable dealer. But anyways, the bow that i have now is brand new, no varnish wear or chip. If i decided to remove the leather, is it possible that the leather might rip off some of the varnish? I have also noticed that the pearl size in picture 1 of the certificate has a smaller diameter from the picture 3 of the certificate. what do you guys think?

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The stick, frog and button look different to the photos, but angle make it tricky to be certain.

In addition to what has been said by others, consider taking careful measurements to make proportional comparisons to the photos.

In other words, measure the frog length in the photo and on the real bow and use the ratio as the 'magnification' correction. Then work through the other relevant measurements (eg button, ferrule etc).

Use an accurate gauge because small errors will multiplicate when you apply the 'magnification' correction.

ps - I would suggest that you do not tamper with the bow in any way as this may weaken your case.

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Picture worth a 1000 words?

It would be hard to find two bow tips less alike......

Why is the leather wrapping extended so far down

....... to protect against wear? (or to hide a stamp?)

The two eyes are completely different in design.

Need to say any more?

Which bow do you have, the one on the right?

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ya the leather was put on by the same shop which i purchased my bow from to protect from wears. Omobono, if you look at the certificate, there are 2 different bows shown on the certificate. If u look at the adjuster of the first picture of the bow in the Certificate with the expon1937 stamp (that is the bow in my hand right now), there are 2 visible collars that you can see (just like fiddlecollector said), but if you look at the third picture of the Certificate, the second collar is not distinct at all, in fact i cant say that i see it.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
BBBXXX

i have the bow on the left (the pictures which i took) How do u lift up the leather? do i just rip it out myself or do i have to take it to a shop and let them take it off?

It should not be too hard to take as look underneath.

You're unlikely to do any damage by peeling it back.

It would be interesting to see if there is anything

stamped underneath.

The name stamped on the illustrated bow above is of Jules Fetique,

from a later generation of bow makers following the more

illustrious Victor, I guess?

I know little about these things but Victor was presumably

influenced by Voirin (late 19th cent.)

and perhaps, Jules, more by Sartory (early 20th cent.).

There is also a Marcel Fetique.

Perhaps someone with the expertise can clarify this....?

Obviously each maker would also employ different styles.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
GMM22

The question is not whether the pictures are incongruent, but rather what to do about it.

Yaap....

but we had to give our friend a little re-assurance first that he was not barking up the wrong tree.

That was his initial request:

"But first I want to make sure that my theory is correct before doing anything."

I only put the pics up to save folks having to download the whole shooring gallery.

And I am curious as to why to leather grip is extended down the stick....

if it's too protect the bow from wear, I've never seen it done like that before.

The leather would soon become thin and untify looking, prone to mildew. etc.

Should the stamp markings be different

- you have incontestable evidence to show the seller.

GMM22 has obviously given you some other advice privately,

which is all to the good.

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Isn't the important question: is the bow you have in hand the bow you thought you were buying.

The accuracy of the cert is secondary to the authenticity of the stick.

I would take off the leather to confirm the existence of the expo stamp.

I would assume the cert is of two (if not three) different bows (for whatever reason).

I would then seek a third party opinion as to the authenticity of the stick in hand.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
falstaff

Isn't the important question: is the bow you have in hand the bow you thought you were buying.

The accuracy of the cert is secondary to the authenticity of the stick.

I would take off the leather to confirm the existence of the expo stamp.

I would assume the cert is of two (if not three) different bows (for whatever reason).

I would then seek a third party opinion as to the authenticity of the stick in hand.

I think that sums up the situation well. This is a very reputable shop (please correct me if I'm wrong); my assumption has been that the bow is correct and that someone screwed up in generating the certificate photos (as the certificate seems to have been prepared after the bow left the shop).

I don't mean to be defending the shop; it is surprising that they didn't deal with this issue (on a very expensive bow, I believe) as soon as they heard about it. But surely sending some more adequate photos will resolve the problem with a minimum of fuss and bother for both parties.

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falstaff, i am 100% sure that this is the bow that I bought since I took it out for a week for trial. But now i am just worried about the authenticity of the bow. Does anyone know any experts that will authenticate the bow in Houston area? And i tried to lift up the leather, it just wont come off, seems to be glued on there or something.

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