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Anyone use this varnish product?

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Glad you're all looking into this, and I appreciate you're sharing

the results. From my perspective, If they can make good money from

bottling a basic solution, that's fine by me. Wish I would have

thought of it. But if it's harmful, with me or my instruments, then

I have a problem with the practice.

Magnus has a good point, if it is historically accurate, then no

problems. But why hasn't it shown up in analysis, or has it?

Obligato, If you don't return after the weekend, I

guess we can all assume that you're suspicions are correct and

you've been  "silenced " .

You might want to hire a body guard. Just in case.

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quote:


Obligato, If you don't return after the weekend, I guess we can all assume that you're suspicions are correct and you've been "silenced " .

No Problem. I ask Tonwooddealer Heinz Kreuzer for body guard!!! Big strong guy!!

"Old Wood" have Stand no. 112, and Kremer Pigments have no. 111.

How interesting is that???

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It might just be that if harmful substances are sold at very low concentrations you are no longer obliged to put on stickers? E.g. potassium nitrite is widely used in food, without any obligation to put on warning stickers. (Although they should have perhaps )

Also , I.D. is also described as "harmless" in the instructions. Would you consider the concentration P.N. is used at for violins to be harmful?

Another question that came to mind: can potassium or sodium nitrite be found in a natural source, pure enough to work for this purpose, or does it have to be chemically made or purified?

I have a premonition of a lot of nasty business at Mondomusica this year... Obligato, I think you also should ask protection from the Imprimatura Dorata-Mafia if you ask unwanted questions to the Old Wood-guys. This won't stop you from doing vice-versa when interrogating the I.D.-Mafia of course.

"Old Wood" have Stand no. 112, and Kremer Pigments have no. 111.

How interesting is that???

Don't you know that the Kremer family is in possession of one of the greatest Potassium Nitrite reserves in Europe? They happen to have an heavily indebted cousin in the O.W. firm. (Joke)

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The only question what I have is why this product is so expensive? If you know whats init you can make it self for less then 10 Dollars. 166 Euro can make also a "wow this should be very good" efect. Warning stickers the oppositie. But I still think something should be on the label. "Do not drink! Give it not in the hand of kids" is the minimum.

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Don't know how to link to old topics, but, here:

Topic Title: "Old

Wood" Ground color

Topic Summary:

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Hey, I just learned something really cool,

Just click on the page number in my previous post, and it will take

you there!

But, there's probably an old post in the archives which say's that,

too.

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Hi Michael,

I think that you are doing the right thing by asking or saying that

there is a problem when they sell products with a possible level of

toxicity and that there is no mention of it anywhere.  If you

go there with Herr Kreuzer, you might have all the arguments you

need to convince the people of Old Wood and of Magister to change

those maybe illegal practices.  You might get a special price

for the products because they don't want to have problems with you

and the big Herr Kreuzer of Mittenwald.  If it's the case, you

could make a special order for us the Maestronet !  For

the price of the Hammerl antique stains we are all interested I

think.

They probably don't want to say anything about the toxicity because

we might find the basic elements of those products and surely

because it's really complicated to ship dangerous products and to

send them to a lab to make the necessary toxicity tests.  They

would need to make a lot of administrative work to make everything

legally and it's costing a lot of money to manage that and it's

expensive and complicated to send dangerous products by mail, by

truck and maybe it's impossible by plane...

They find a market for varnishing products and they are making a

lot of money with it I think.  I don't have anything

about people making money if they have good ideas and good

products, but they surely have to make everything legally and have

to respect the health and environment of their customers and

of the people working for the shipping companies.

If they make, sell and send dangerous products without any

information about it, they are in big trouble with the European

union and maybe with countries receiving those products.

 They are not playing a nice game and I am not happy about

it.

Thanks for your procedure and give us some news about it when

you're back to Germany.

Richard

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Hello again, I am safe back from Italy and Mondomusica!

I arrived at 11 am on the fairground in Cremona, little bid late with my wife and friends. The reason was the night before on the Lake ."Garda"

After shake a lot of hands and some small talks, I went to the stand of "Old Wood". Uppppsss lot of people! Come back later. Finally he was free for me. We shake hands and he said: I know you from reading on Maestronet..........yeah!

He follow our discussion here with high interest, but he is spain and need somebody to write in english, and explain us perfectly.

He understand people ask question about chemical products and risk of health. He said we should not worry, everthing was done with right rules for Europe, and other Countrys. (By the way Howard Core sale his product also now). The solution is only 1.3% of chemical in water, so he don`t need any stickers on it. The price comes high, because the development costs. I belive him, the product is really good.

In the meantime, lot of other makers stand behind me and follow our conversation with high interest. One maker from France said, the price is Ok for him, enough for about 6 Violins. However, we should wait till he join with us here.

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quote:


imagine when the Chinese starts making such products...

Of course....... Label reads: "STRADIVARI IN THE BOTTLE"

Richard: Tomorrow morning I take a look in the Hammerl catalog about price, and let all know.

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Good sleuthing, Obligato!

If the chemical content is 1.3%, that would make it about 0.2 molar if Old Wood used sodium nitrite. My tests with 1.0 molar sodium nitrite made me think that was too concentrated--I will try it with 0.2 molar.

Think about this--if the chemical was cyanide, a 1.3% solution would still be dangerous, and you would need an MSDS. I do not know the law on this issue, but I suspect there is no immunity from an MSDS at 1.3%. And there are still the handling issues (gloves) and long term behavior on the wood (does the wood turn punky in a few years?).

I went to Compendix (used to be called the Engineering Index) and looked up the subjects of nitrite, wood, reactions, etc. Many, many combinations of keywords--I could not find out how nitrite reacts with wood. Compendix only goes back to year 1984, but is the most powerful search of the technical database that I know of. I also did the same on the internet--no luck.

I would guess that nitrite is not used, historically, to darken wood, but I would like some enlightenment on this issue. Who else uses it? I am convinced that nitrite gives a very nice and desirable browning to the wood, but is it safe? I would like to use it, I but feel uncomfortable with it.

On the subject of sodium versus potassium nitrite, I do not think it makes any difference for this application. There are definite differences in the crystal form, hydration, solubility, etc.

Mike D

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Potassium nitrite is used by famous luthiers. Nitrite followed by or preceded by dilute dichromate gives a pleasant brown rather than the pink orange of nitrite alone or the greenish cast of dichromate alone.

Nitrite will color summer cut spruce pink rather than orange.

That's all I can say about this right now.

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I've been using a combination of sun, tea, sodium nitrite (4%), weak amonia fumes and my home made ground:

1437770048_6bcfe0ced9.jpg

I'm considering registering the name "IMPRIMITURA MANFIATTA" or "OLD MANFIO WOOD".

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Hi Michael,

Thanks for the information you gave to us and for speaking with the

man behind the Old wood products.  We are now waiting for more

information directly from him.

We only had a little misunderstanding but I must admit that my post

was not clear enough .  I did not wanted to get

the prices of the Hammerl stains, but every Maestronetters would

like to get the Old wood ground at the price of the Hammerl stains

if they were in a legally dangerous situation...  You were

there to tell them that there is maybe a problem with the

product and it was maybe possible to get a special price....

 

It was just to clarify my post .

Richard

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Oh it was really a missunderstand.

If you think as a businessman, he is doing right. Do he sale more if the price go down? Maybe, but he makes not more profit, because customers for this product are limitied.

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