Which gouge to get?


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"http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=BIGP&description=Ashley Iles No. 5 Straight Gouges&fullimagepath=/prodimg/il/big/IL-5XX_big.gif"

title="Ashley Iles"> Ashley Il"http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715"

title="">es or japanese gouges from dick?anyones?

saintjohnbarleycorn,]do you mean "http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715"

title="This one">This one ?

Thanks

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Ray Lee
"http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=BIGP&description=Ashley Iles No. 5 Straight Gouges&fullimagepath=/prodimg/il/big/IL-5XX_big.gif"

title="Ashley Iles">Ashley Il
"http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715"

title="">es or japanese gouges from dick?anyones?

saintjohnbarleycorn,]do you mean
"http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715"

title="This one">This one ? Thanks

Yeah! The links works now!I

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I've found Pfeil doesn't hold an edge as long as others, although I only notice it as a problem when carving harder woods. I've been happy with the Auriou gouges I bought thanks to Dean L's recommendation (although one needs to watch the angles as they can be chippy), as well as some antique gouges I have. I have a Stubai that's ok. Dastra is often mentioned. Next I'll be trying the Japanese gouges in a quest for the longest-lasting fine edge possible.

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I have experience of a variety of makes...

I have ~ 12 Pfeils, 4 Ashley Iles and some Taylors , ~8 Japanese and probably 30 antique English gouges + a 4 German ones from a small scale maker (Herr S...) with a very long name that I cannot remember. Many have special scoops and twists etc.

English steel (and tool making) went through a bad period in the 1970s and 80s. The Iles and Taylors I have are from the 1980s; maybe they have improved matters recently.

Unquestionable the antique English cast steel ones are the best I have, but for delicate scroll work ,the Pfeils and featherlight Japanese gouges do a great job.

I have carved figured maple back with a short-handled broad Pfeil and it did a good job, although I normally use a pair of longhandled heavy gouges by Herr S....

Hope my mini-consumer comparison helps!

ps I have used an Stubai carving set - good steel.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Ray Lee


"http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715">

es or japanese gouges from dick?anyones?

saintjohnbarleycorn,]do you mean
"http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07.070.130&dept_id=12715">

This one ? Thanks

yes those are the type that I went for. there have been other

discussions on this subject. And It seems that apart from just

plain preference, there are good and not as good batches, along

with years that were good and not as good. I see on other

woodworking forums "old"  gouges are rated pretty highly,

again if they are of the good type. I find it interesting with the

technology of today, that the old chisels are preferred by many

people. I wonder if it is a time issue?  In the end with so

many educated opinions and the wealth of knowledge here, I went

with the ones within my price range that got decent reviews. the

other info was learn how to sharpen them, which I am still learning

about. hope this helps.

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SJBC--It could be a 'time' issue in several senses of the word. In one sense, some people think that the tools we have now are the ones which were kept because they were good, so that time has weeded out the garbage (there is an obvious counter-argument to this...) In another sense, modern tool-makers can't afford to take a lot of time, so it is easy for quality to suffer. I'm inclined to think that a major reason is that woodworking tools are a smaller market now, the competition isn't as stiff and the standards of a large part of the market are not so high (how many professional handtool-using woodworkers are there these days compared to the past, even with the current resurgence?).

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The difference is simple - mass production without good quality control versus the 1-man operation.

This gentleman in Matsumoto City, Japan, made a knife for me (the one he is sharpening) - I can shave with it!

ps In that same town (from where Mr Suzuki, of the method, hails), I also found a craftsman who made fountain pens from scratch.

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I would always keep my eye open at antique stores for antique

gouges, my experience has been that modern tools don't measure up

and cost A LOT more, they might have chips you have to grind down,

but there well worth the effort, I just inherited my old bosses

tool collection and there are lots of chisels unfortunetly he was

not a maker(he made bows) and he didn't have many of the larger

size gouges, My guess is a top of the line Japanese chisel might

beat a new German or English one but not a good antique one,

sincerely Lyndon J Taylor

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Seth_Leigh
By the way, while

looking for Ashley Iles gouges (because all of the links provided

thusfar didn't work), I found

picture

of two gouges of distinct shape. Anyone recognize this shape? David

Tseng makes some knives with this kind of blade shape.

Seth,

These look like skew fishtail chisels (a very old design) with very

curved profiles. There's probably some fancy name for them. I'm not

sure that they would have much over a conventional (no fish tail)

skew chisel in violin making, but you won't know 'til you try.

Maybe in the scroll throat? Not counting my knives, which are

essentially just double bevel skew chisels with curved

profiles and knife like handles, the only place I use skew

chisels is in the peg box.

--Joe

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yes Andres, I guess that is the way of the world. I sometimes complain about the price of things, but on the other hand I think, would the alternative be that there would be no tool available at all, if the price didn't make it worthwhile to the maker. Our desire for lower prices is what keeps wallmart in business and promotes the lower quality items. So I guess every age has its balance between mass production and quality. I feel lucky to live in a time when you can get tools from japan, and wood from Europe, and America, and all the other things making it possible to be able to make violins, and have it delivered to you door in a week or less. Not to mention the info available which I think in the past would be very guarded secrets.

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If you search various suppliers of Japanese tools, you will find a ranges of prices from shop-made, to apprentice, to master-made. I have seen master grade planes, with amazing names, selling for many $1000's.

For equivalent grades, the Japanese tools are as expensive there as in the catalogues.

In Japan there is a great respect for craftsmanship, and a tool will be graded and priced according to the standing of the maker. The latter will lay his reputation on materials and methods (see picture of the tool that the Matsumoto tool-maker uses to beat the folded steel over and over in a damascus-like process). I watched the maker for an hour whilst he twisted the tines of a 'simple' pitch fork.

ps - In Japan you never, never haggle over price with a craftsman (even with an interpreter!) - you would be demeaning his workmanship.

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What do you think about "http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=07%2E130%2E418&dept_id=12713">

the fishtail gouges?

I am going to ordering from japanwoodworker and/or Dick, what do

you suggesting me to get?

I want to upgrading all my tools collections.Thanks

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May I suggest that you consider tools for (i) 'delicate' carving eg scrolls and (ii) heavier gouging eg backs.

For (i) the handles should be light, and for (ii) they are heavier and can be longer.

Tools from different makers will have very different feel. Buy 1 or 2 or each type and try them out - you can always buy more once you are happy with balance, feel etc.

Be careful in your initial choice regarding tools that are meant to be hit with a mallet - these may not be what you are looking for.

The edges of the gouges may have to be rounded for optimal performance. Sharpness and edge angle are key - if you cannot shave your forearm, its not sharp enough.

ps for those who read my earlier post, I found Herr S's name - Scharwaechter.

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