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varnish supplies


carlkenyon
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Hello,

 The quest for the perfect varnish is very exciting. Everyone

seems to have a different way to make their own.

.

I have made the Darnton Mastic varnish from the last large post

from MATT  (lets make some mastic varnish).

Now I intend to make varnish from Lyndon  J Taylor's

 recipe . This is from a recent post ," Cremona

Varnish - How  too"

I think it would be helpful if members could list a source of

supplier .

for example I got my mastic from , WoodFinishing

Enterprises (online). My turpintine from home depot

For this next varnish It requires Nitric Acid 90%, I can't

 find it , I can find  Nitric Acid 70% from Renaissance

Graphic Arts in Pittsburgh.( it would have to be

shipped) .

Also ,does anyone know where you could walk into a store and

purchase these supplies / resins / rosens/ around

the area of Baltimore or Washington  D C

Maybe multiple stores.

Thanks for any input  

 Carl

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I dont know where Lyndon gets his 90% acid, here in the UK you can only get this strength with a license or if you have an account with a chemical supplier. Most conc. Nitric acid readily available over the counter is around 70%. Anything over around 85 % is also known as Fuming Nitric Acid, apart from legitimate chemical synthesis,it is also used for making explosives. At the present time in the UK you,d have to have a pretty good reason to use it (90 % strength) due to the recent terrorist alerts.

I think you can do anything like Lyndon is describing with the usual 70 % acid,it certainly reacts in the same way.It can also explode all over the place when reacted with rosin,as i have found one time.You can end up with skin burning sticky resin all over you and all over the surrounding area,which is also difficult to clean up.It has to be kept cool ,etc... whilst the main reaction is going,much the same as the Fulton reaction.

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Fiddlecollector,

The previous time I oxidised turpentine to make resin for the Fulton varnish (about two years ago), I made a lot of it and didn't use even half. The other day I made the rest into resin, and there was no exothermic reaction whatsoever. I just cooked it, it eventually turned red, and that was that. Why would that be?

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Hi Jacob, i dont know exactly why,i havent really any experience of making Fultons. It must undergo further slight changes or something with the long time its been kept prior to processing it. What did you keep it in for those two years?? Did it come into any contact with metals. John Masters mentioned that if certain metals are added the peroxides are prevented from reacting violently.

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Hi Jacob,

I understand that the oxidized turpentine contains lots of peroxides wich break down with time. Evidently it's the peroxides that cause the exothermic violent reaction-sorry I'm not a chemist can't really explain what's going on chemically, but this is the explanation given to me by knowledgeable chemists.

Oded

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Jacob

Fiddlecollector,

The previous time I oxidised turpentine to make resin for the Fulton varnish (about two years ago), I made a lot of it and didn't use even half. The other day I made the rest into resin, and there was no exothermic reaction whatsoever. I just cooked it, it eventually turned red, and that was that. Why would that be?

That's good news to me, because I still have half or so of the thick, oxydized turpentine from a couple of years ago, that was never completed by cooking down to resin. It would be really cool if I didn't have to worry about the exothermic reaction while cooking it further.

That might actually be a very cool way to make Fulton varnish, albeit at the cost of some time and patience. Make the oxydized turpentine and then let it sit for a year, then cook it down. Cool stuff. :-)

I'm also curious if the use of a different drying oil, like walnut oil, instead of linseed oil, can prevent the destruction of that fantastic red color that the resin takes on when you cook it down. Keeping that red color would have been sweet, but the linseed oil kills it.

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Hi Seth,

Why do you say the linseed oil kills the colour? I don't think there is enough colour to affect the appearance of the varnish after mixing with oil and diluting with turpentine. The varnish still looks "red" in the bottle, but applied in a few thin coats all you will get is a pale amber.

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Jacob, when I cooked my resin down, as the peroxides reacted away the resin assumed a very beautiful, deep ruby color. I thought hey this is great, I'd love it if the varnish ended up looking that way. But then with the addition of, and cooking with, the linseed oil, the ruby red gave way to yellowish brown. And yes, it may be opaque in the bottle and go on relatively clear, but it's opaque yellowish brown in the bottle, not the dark ruby red that the resin had before the addition of the oil.

Carl: it's not that important, but the "let's make some mastic varnish" thread was mine, not Matt's.

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Hi Carl! Making and colouring varnish is an art by itself. And it's costy, and sometimes dangerous also.

I don't know how many instruments you have made, but if you are a begginer, I strongly advise you to focuse on making by now and use good quality ready made violin oil varnish, leaving varnish making and colouring to a near future.

Many professional makers are using ready made varnishes made by Joe Robinson and Koen Pading.

Even using ready made varnishes you will have lots of work discovering how to use them properly. In a second moment you can start making your own varnishes or ground.

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Hi Seth,

Now that is interesting. My finished product is crystal clear, and a deep red with amber "undertones". DarylG fairly recently put up this photo of amber (the resin) varnish in a bottle.

varnish.jpg

My "Fulton" varnish looks exactly like that in the bottle.

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Hey, This is important stuff!!!  (1) Seth  Leigh you are

the mastic maker with the photographic talent to beat all, I

confused the little emblem (the picture thing) since yours and

Matt's are so much alike. I apologize. My mastic varnish is ready

and waiting to use from that thread , thanks

Mignal , on danger, I hope its not that dangerous., But " that's

where the fun is"

Fiddlecollector, I can only get say 69% ( I can find that, I hope

they will sell it to me) so I will use that. It seems better then

the explosive stuff anyway.

Manfio , Yes I am a beginner, but I feel the varnish and the

instrument cannot be separated, also I am not in any rush, so I

just explore where ever this road takes me .  It is crazily

expensive as you know.

Thank you for all your input,  carl

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