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it is amazing how my Markneukirchen students violin


geigen
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Slowpoke,

Thanks to Ebay's recent change in structure, a seller can choose to

hide all bidder's name, so you CAN'T notify the buyer.

Draw your own conclusion as to why Ebay did this, but I guarantee

you it was NOT to "protect bidders from phony second-chance offers"

as they claim.   Now, whenever I see the "bidders names

hidden" in an auction, I automatically assume something is fishy,

and tread very slowly.

 "Ebay" is a four letter word.  It has it's uses, but

like most four-letter words, you have to know when it's appropriate

and wise to use it, and when it is not.

---

(Hey, I gotta' remember that one!)

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Ahhh, I see Priya, you would seek to change me because I seek to change others?

Yuen, using your logic I'm quite free to rob your home am I? You wouldn't object and certainly wouldn't report me to the police? After all what's the f***ing difference?

To revamp a statement I made earlier - fraud is robbery is fraud is robbery.

I really do not understand those like priya and yuen who think we should just lie back and spread 'em so that we can get royally reamed. Moronic.

Neil

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quote:


Originally posted by:
matzstudio

i wished you WOULD keep your opinion secret, Yuen. really, i wished you would. your opinion is NO GOOD. wait until YOU get ripped off, and then talk, baby!

Oh, that's a bit harsh, honestly.

Yuen is arguing from a different perspective, namely that of the sound.

If you buy a fiddle, are you buying it for the investment or the sound? If for the sound, then either you got the sound you paid for or you didn't. Either way, the name doesn't come into it.

If you're buying for investment, then of course you should be very suspicious and do all you can to make sure you're getting what you're paying for.

Naturally, none of that has any bearing on whether the schweinereier who defrauds the buyer with a fake label is a crook and should be tossed into the kerker. He is, and he should be! And maybe should also fall down the stairs a few times meanwhile.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
yuen
The name of the maker

is overplayed here. If the name is part of the deal, one should ask

for a certificate. (Certificate not does make sound

neither)

Sadly, a certificate means about as much as a label.

Check out the Collini fake (I think) complete with a fancy Italian

certificate, mentioned in my new thread:

http://www.maestronet.com/forums/messagevi...9&enterthread=y

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true, that is harsh, and i don´t want to offend anyone on this forum. if so: my apologies. back to the issue - violin sales on eBay (i have no figures, but could imagine: quit a big piece of the cake) are - as with other online auctions - based on seller´s descriptions, not on sound. if the description is a lie i call that fraud, and this is not the buyers fault. it´s illegal behaviour by the seller.

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See, violin is not essential to life, unlike food or medicine. The guy paid 3000 bucks for such.

Whoese business is tell him don't ? Don't be so judgemental. The guy was in his "Free" will to bid.

ebay is a free aution market. One does not have to bid anything. why feel sorry for him.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
matzstudio
... the guy paid

3.000 for something described as an old italian fiddle with a

Postacchini label, which in reality is a Markneukirchen factory

product. i think that sucks.

Also, that fiddle will likely get passed along, from buyer to

buyer, for hundreds of years. Heck, eventually it might even start

looking a little authentic.

Imaging how many unfortunate students, with well-intentioned,

loving parents, will have to suffer through the ownership of that

fiddle?  (no offense, Geigen!) It's a crime with

many victims.

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Interesting, and disturbing thread.  I thought everyone was

basically honest.  In the good old days I bought a

decent german shop violin on E-Bay.  Paid $122.50 US for

it.  It bailed me out tonewise at a time when my good violin

was misbehavin'.  The next was an interesting Jackson-Guldan

with birdseye back and a beautiful scroll.  Paid a premium $

considering the surprisingly tight sound but oh, it is pretty.

 Of course by the time I got to the third purchase in March

2000 I had been had.  The Stainer turned out to be a

cheap mass produced school instrument with sprayed on finish.

 That one set me back $252.95 to K.D.Smith Auctions, plus

repairs.  Haven't bought anything on E-Bay since.

So the lesson was cheap since the first violin is easily worth

$1000, and in fairness no one misrepresented anything blatantly

during the auctions.  Need to know, and let the buyer beware

prevails.

But this is different.  Fraud can almost certainly be proven

here.  It is as good as a "sting" operation, with a clear

trail to the perpetrator.  The question for the authorities is

this.  Is adding a label to an instrument for the purpose of

misrepresenting its identity illegal?  If so, I think it

should be prosecuted, if only to send a message that we protect

each others' backs as much as possible.  And if not, exposing

the fraud as diligently as possible accomplishes the same

objective.

I think we should thank the poster for bringing this to everyone's

attention.

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Allan, that might be a harsh evaluation of the Ebay feedback system.

Granted, rogue sellers are out there, but there are just as many rogue buyers tarnishing the reputations

of respectable sellers, wait a second, maybe Allan's evaluation is not too harsh after all.

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I bought a violin from [The Label Inserter], and regretted it. But I went by his characterization of the tone, and felt foolish but not cheated when I played what he sent me. There was no label in the one I bought, but there should have been (see my attachment) with "last digits hand-written." Now I can see that he's unreliable. His buyers should be informed, assuming he is not using fake buyers and shills.

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Ebay is a sharks market, but then an inexperienced buyer walking in

off the street to a conventional auction could easily be burned

too, unfortuanetly ebay is so successful that its drying up the

regular market, I don't find violins at antique stores anymore,

the're all listing on ebay(the antique stores) my guess is

established violin shops are seeing a drop off in walk in for sale

violins as these individuals are putting them up on ebay instead of

going to the store, whether we like it or not ebay is a major

source to be reckoned with, and anything we can do to educate

buyers and expose frauds is a good thing in my opinion, sincerely

Lyndon J Taylor

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