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sonnichs

Andreas Amati Violins c 1650??!!

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I am curious for those of you that collect and restore  "copy

of" violins, whether or not you have encountered the several

"Andreas Amati" models that prevail with labels of 1672, 1633

&c. The birth/mortum dates for the father of the Cremona

school are somewhat obscure but center around c.

"-1">1520–c.1578. I have done some searching in my books and

on the web but can find no Amati carrying the "Andreas" or

 "Andrea" name that dates from the 17th century, however most

of the trade violins bearing his name give 17th century

dates!

 Of course one can write this off as careless

mis-labeling of spurious trade violins, however I find that most of

the German trade violins having a "copy of" label have some

reasonable relationships to a copied model, and most of the dates

for other famous makers are tractable.  

 So- if anyone can explain the discrepancy either

by revealing a later "Andrea" or  perhaps pointing to a 17th c

copy that was further copied in modern times I would be

interested.

Cheers and Thanks,

Fritz

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There are many old trade labels with the names just plain wrong (like "Caspar" da Salo), the dates impossible, and in even more instances the instruments on which the labels appear bear no resemblance whatsoever to the original model it is supposed to emulate.

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Hmmmm

 I think that one is a Ralph Stradiuarius-he came

over on the Mayflower (;->

Actually I have seen such mis-labels as well but the Andreas Amati

ones are almost always 100 years to late. At any rate I expect that

Jacob has basically summed it up-there probably is no other Andreas

in the Amati clan.

TNX

Fritz

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Jacob

There are many old trade labels with the names just plain wrong (like "Caspar" da Salo), the dates impossible, and in even more instances the instruments on which the labels appear bear no resemblance whatsoever to the original model it is supposed to emulate.

My theory, as likely to be wrong as right, is that many or most of these "mistakes" were intentional, with the idea that even a slightly knowledgeable person should recognize them and therefore the maker could not be accused of fraud. But I specialize in weird ideas.

Lyle

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I have a beautifully made/preserved/sounding Nicolo Amati that I bought specifically because the old label dated it as being made by him in 1690 - 4 years after he died. But no one knew his burial date years later until about 1810 when the Vatican records showed it to be 1686. Therefore I have a great conterfiet made before 1810. A true historical counterfiet had to sound somewhere near the original's quality to fetch a price worthy of the time involved to make it. Factory repro's from late 1800's on are hit-and-miss quality and most often 'miss'.

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Lyle, I don't think your idea is all that far-fetched.

But I also don't think that high-end trade violins with good facsimile labels were intended to deceive - or even maker's copies (Vuillaume, for instance) with facsimile Strad or other labels. The label was just part of the copy.

The number of old German trade instruments with labels which indicate the real maker/manufacturer are relatively rare. Perhaps then, as now, the expectation from the public was that a violin with a label - any label - has a better "pedigree", even if the label is obviously a facsimile, or just plain spurious. Real attempts to deceive in this way are rare, and can be quite subtle. Most instruments I've seen with a label reading "copie de Stradivari" were German, not French. In cases such as this I certainly perceive an attempt at deception, since French trade instruments of the 19th century were generally higher up the market totem-pole than German trade instruments.

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I personally find the model and concept of the violin as exemplified in Andrea Amati's surviving works quite inspiring. Somewhat plain, unpretentious, functional and yet a powerful statement, without some of the later refinement and sophistication.

It is sobering to think that the violin basically hasn't changed since his day.

You would have to rate him among the greatest ever makers besides Stradivari and Guarneri for that reason alone.

There were quite a lot of interest and many events associated with the 5th Centenary of his birth in 2005.

As for labels...... well it's always a bit of a mystery.

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