fidleir Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI...50090479949&rd=1&rd=1 Im tempted but I just know in my heart that these at best workshop fiddles. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI...0079826058&rd=1&rd=1. These guys are dealers and know what they are selling does anybody think they be reasonably playing fiddes if they go at a reasonable price I'm tempted the Schlosser has avery nice back and good workmanship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudall Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: fidleir Im tempted but I just know in my heart that these at best workshop fiddles. But what isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Ones a crook the others sells loads of rubbish with bad pictures ,usually with fake labels and brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidleir Posted February 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 Which one is the crook?Depotdoc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: fiddlecollector Ones a crook the others sells loads of rubbish with bad pictures ,usually with fake labels and brands. In other words, they are both crooks. If an auction's wording clearly indicates that the seller knows a lot about violins, and / or the seller has sold / is selling other violins, then there's only two explanations for a seriously-low starting bid: 1: The violin is complete rubbish, or- 2: There will be serious shill bidding involved before the end of the auction. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: fidleir Which one is the crook?Depotdoc! One of them ,somehow actually removed a violin(and a much cheaper one he had bid for) from a real auction which i had bought and paid for.When confronted he said he had already sold the violin onto a buyer in Germany,which was highly unlikely(as this was in a matter of a few days).Only for the violin to appear on ebay within a couple of weeks ,the seller being the same as the guy who had removed my violin. I couldnt be bothered chasing after him and was fully refunded by the auction house.Needless to say the violin sold on ebay for less than he had paid for it. (which was some comfort to know) (the auctioneers had got the money out of him,by treat of legal action). Im in the UK so you can guess which one im refering to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bblake Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Anyone prepared to chime in on this Ebay "Stainer"Stainer Violin - 25,000 USD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbgilm Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 He's selling the Stainer for $25,000 but won't pay for an appraisal because they cost too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbgilm Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I agree that the Schlosser has a nice back, but that is the kind of maple I associate with Chinese fiddles. The workmanship looks good, but I don't see many signs of age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fidleir Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 It looks old to me but than that is my problemm I can't tell the difference.I am however sure that it is not Chinese probably German with a false label this guy can have these appraised very easily therefore it is a false label.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean_fidhleir Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: bblake Anyone prepared to chime in on this Ebay "Stainer"Stainer Violin - 25,000 USD I wish Al Stancel were still with us--he'd be laughing his butt off, or possibly shaking his head in amusement. He called those ones with the discontinuous arching "bathtub 'Stainers'". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bblake Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Ha ha. "Bathtub" Stainers is very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaux Eau Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 . . . and how convenient: a 'Bathtub Stainer' made with f-holes large enough that the mice don't have to chew pine to get in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bblake Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: bean_fidhleir quote: Originally posted by: bblake Anyone prepared to chime in on this Ebay "Stainer" Stainer Violin - 25,000 USD I wish Al Stancel were still with us--he'd be laughing his butt off, or possibly shaking his head in amusement. He called those ones with the discontinuous arching "bathtub 'Stainers'". In my ignorance I'd like to ask a question about the "discontinuous arching". I've become quite interested in Stainers but am new to violins. On a genuine Stainer, is the "step/slope" down towards the ribs, from the very high centre section, much more gradual. Does it follow a set of contours, like a land countour map, down to the flat perimeter at the ribs? Or is it, from the high point, a gradual and continuous slope down, to the flat before the ribs? This is not easy to put into words so I'm sorry if I am confusing. I have tried to work this out by looking at several pictures of Stainers but have been unable to. Perhaps put more simply, I am asking why the "Bathtub" in this picture is so obviously wrong, and how a correct Stainer, back and front, would look. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 This is what a real Stainer should look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean_fidhleir Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: bblake In my ignorance I'd like to ask a question about the "discontinuous arching". I've become quite interested in Stainers but am new to violins. On a genuine Stainer, is the "step/slope" down towards the ribs, from the very high centre section, much more gradual. Does it follow a set of contours, like a land countour map, down to the flat perimeter at the ribs? Or is it, from the high point, a gradual and continuous slope down, to the flat before the ribs? This is not easy to put into words so I'm sorry if I am confusing. I have tried to work this out by looking at several pictures of Stainers but have been unable to. Perhaps put more simply, I am asking why the "Bathtub" in this picture is so obviously wrong, and how a correct Stainer, back and front, would look. Thanks for any help. Besides the pointer that Wilhelm provides, here are 2 more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Stainer.jpg and a copy by David van Zandt: http://www.vanzandtviolins.com/vn77new.htm. I think Michael has photos of a copy he made some time ago (unless I'm confused), and could perhaps be persuaded to post them here, too. The differences between the real ones/good copies and that 'bathtub' non-copy should be apparent. (edit: fixed links made buggy by the forum software) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bblake Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Thanks people. I've bookmarked those links. That Van Zant picture really showed what I was wanting to know. Particularly the side on view of the body. Appreciate it, both of you. No bathtubs for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bblake Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Last night I was reading my Franz Farga "Violins and Violinists" and I got to the chapter on English violins. Apparantly there was a heavy preference towards copying Stainers and in the authors opinion, "the majority grossly exaggerated the arches". Perhaps this is common knowledge to forum members but I found it very interesting. It would seem "bathtubs" are not a new phenomonen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bean_fidhleir Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 The English ones weren't really the discontinuously-arched 'bathtubs', or at least I don't remember seeing any. I think the exaggerations of English makers were more benign--they just made very deep, tubby bodies. Someone else can speak with more authority on the subject, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priya Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Talk about English bathtubs, check this one out: http://img.villagephotos.com/p...5-1/932239/brit04.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p...5-1/932239/brit02.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/932239/brit03.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: priya Talk about English bathtubs, check this one out: ">http://img.villagephotos.com/p...932239/brit04.jpg ">http://img.villagephotos.com/p...932239/brit02.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-1/932239/brit03.jpg Nothing wrong with that one ,at least the arching is more or less harmonius. Ive seen Italians that are higher arched than that one. Most bad Stainer type violins ,i associate a figure of eight style of high arching platform(almost flat) with a deep trough around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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