mcarufe Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I was wondering if anyone knew the actual Strad, Heron Allen used to make the model presented in his book? Also, I have a very old copy and the measurements seem to be short a couple of mm to any I have looked up. Paper shrinkage? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apartmentluthier Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I would consider the Heron-Allen drawings "Suitable For Framing." They look nice on the wall, especially the external mold drawing, but beyond that I would look to something else. Too many other good drawings available, Strad posters etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Yes, Heron Allen's book is great but forget the plans and get some Strad Posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Molnar Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Mike, Do a search on MN for this topic and I think you may have second (and third) thoughts about Heron Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Ed Heron-Allen's book is very interesting. I bought an original 1885 print, but mainly as a 'souvenir' of my violin making hobby, and would probably never use any of the info in it. Someone once said it's easy to spot a violin made with his plans, so that might tell you someting. apartmentluthier, framing those drawings might actually look cool on a shop wall.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 If you are still wondering what the model was, I just looked at my book and the plan say "For Violin of Joseph Guarnerius, 1734" drawn from the "Violin of M. Sainton". EDIT: And yes, that mold plan WOULD look pretty cool on my wall, I may actually frame it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McTigue Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Matt, if the edition you have is the same as the one I read about 12 years ago, there were two fold-out full-size patterns (and a further sheet of templates) - one for the violin you just named (del Gesu), and the other one was a Strad. I seem to remember he made much of his models being, if not exactly famous, at least quite well-known. I can't remember (and didn't write down) the year of the Strad, tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 I think you're right. I seem to now remember one of the fold outs is missing from my book. A past owner must have used the Strad patterns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McTigue Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Again, if I remember, he referred to the plans near the beginning of the "practical" section of the book, and quite probably talks about the specific violins that he copied. If you happen to be re-reading the book at some point, and you happen to see what the Strad model was, it'd be terriffic if you could come back and update this thread... (nudge...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Genevrier Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Here's what I found : "I may say that, unless you wish particularly to copy any particular fiddle, you cannot do better than adopt the model, outline, mould, etc. given in Plate IV., which is that of a Stradivarius of the most finished elegance." Unfortunately, plate IV does not contain any detailed info. And it seems that I can't find any other info in the book, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McTigue Posted January 26, 2007 Report Share Posted January 26, 2007 Thanks - it was a VERY long time ago (about 12 years) when I last read it. If that's as specific as it gets, I guess that's it. Too bad, it would have been nice to at least know the year, but I guess we can assume that it wasn't one of the greatest Strads that he copied... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 How many violins do you think Heron-Allen made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 I thought he only made two, while writing the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 He was supposed to have made two, but recently his Guarneri model was up for sale at auction and i think there is one or more in the Royal College of Music collection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarufe Posted January 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 It would have been nice to fill in that historical gap on the Strad model. This was the original intent of my question. I imagine that many makers of his time gained valuable insight into basic design concepts. Also the passion he had for the fiddle was obvious and without doubt inspired many. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 It wouldnt surprise me if he was using a Strad modeled after whatever George A . Chanot was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apartmentluthier Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Speak of the devil! http://cgi.ebay.com/1889-Antiq...59QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oded Kishony Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Were you all aware that Ed Heron-Allen created all the illustrations himselft, that these illustrations are all woodcuts? I still refer to Hern-Allen, I think there's a lot of very useful information in that book. Oded Kishony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apartmentluthier Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 There is one particular section of the book that mentions sound post adjustments that I have always liked. He at least seems to try and address things that are lacking in most other books, including modern sources. And it is an enjoyable read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McTigue Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 quote: Originally posted by: apartmentluthier Speak of the devil! http://cgi.ebay.com/1889-Antiq...59QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem There is another forum for musical instrument makers, which has an archive for registered members, in which you can download a copy of that (and his Guarneri print) for free... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Here's a few more templates, just for kicks: "http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/AllanSpeers/DelGesuBlueprints.jpg"> http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/All...uBlueprints.jpg "http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/AllanSpeers/StradBlueprints.jpg "> http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g178/All...dBlueprints.jpg ---------------------------- One has to wonder how such measurements were obtained. Did the authors obtain actual Cremonese fiddles and take them apart?Did they check originals (the Canone) or re-graduated examples? Note that Geiger shows a Strad, but also a Vuillaume GDG copy, which makes me think he measured a real Strad, (not faking it) since he likely measured a Vuillaume due to not having access to an actual GDG. -Note also that the graduation numbers seem to be identical for both fiddles, top & bottom, but not the other dimensions. Did Geiger get this wrong, or were the non re-graduated Strads really this thick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mignal Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 There is also a Heron-Allen society: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted_si...heronallen/ehabiog.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widdleabout Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Has anyone ever use the technic on page 259 of the republish book Heron-Allen of incerting a 3/16 wood bar in the f-holes before fitting the bass bar on the top plate to push the top wing up & the bottom down to increase air movement or is it just for looks? I have one violin that has this and it's my favorite. I'm thinking of jacking it up on this fiddle I'm building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 The idea of it is to jack the wing up whilst the bassbar is fitted ,its not meant to cause the `jacked up look`.Its meant to prevent the wing from dropping as far as i can remember,which can sometimes happen when the bar is fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Nedregard Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 Hero-Allen! Sounds good, could he be the new superhero in some film? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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